Most Impressive World Record

[sham]

Which horse has the most impressive world record (dirt, non-sprint)…and why do you think so?

Dist…..Horse....…………….Age…….Wt…….Track, Date ………...Time
8f……..Dr Fager……………...4……..134…….AP, 24-Aug-68……....1:32 1
8½f…..Hoedown's Day…...5……..119…….BM, 23-Oct-83……...1:38 2
9f……..Simply Majestic…….4…….114…….GG, 2-Apr-88……......1:45 0
9½f……Riva Ridge…………...4…….127……..AQU, 4-Jul-73……....1:52 2
10f…….Spectacular Bid……4…….126……..SA, 3-Feb-80…….....1:57 4
12f…….Secretariat………….3……..126……..BEL, 9-Jun-73……....2:24 0
13f…….Swaps………………...4……..130……...HOL, 25-Jul-56……..2:38 1
16f…….Kelso……………….....7……..124……..AQU, 31-Oct-64…...3:19 1

[Thunder Gulch]

Bid or Dr. Fager because those records have withstood the test of time on commonly run distances. While Secretariat's record was certainly stunning, there just aren't many chances for that record to be bested.

[Round Pen]

To me it will always be Secretariat. Reason being here is a horse that went through the rigors of the Triple Crown Races and still on Belmont Day put in (IMO) the greatest performance of all time.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Bid or Dr. Fager because those records have withstood the test of time on commonly run distances.

I agree with this and would like to add that Dr. Fager was carrying 134 pounds when he set the record at the mile.

However, I also agree with Round Pen for the reasons that he stated about Secretariat.

I can't really decide which is the best of these three. Three great world records set by three great horses. Of course, if I was made to decide, I would probably have to go with Spectacular Bid because he was the best of all of these horses overall IMO.

[Five Star Derek]

Spectacular Bid's 10 furlong performance was the best to me. Maybe I'm biased because I got the chance to see him on the backstretch a number of times as a kid along with a number of races. He was a machine who could put on devastating performances at a number of distances. Best horse never to win a Triple Crown. His 7 furlong performance that was recently broken because of a souped up track was also an incredible performance.

[avance2000]

8f……..Dr Fager……………...4……..134…….AP, 24-Aug-68……....1:32 1

i think secretariat was the best racehorse there ever was.....but to me dr. fager's record is the most impressive.
how many horses in the last 38 years have run a race at 8f? i'm guessing millions.....and most of them were not carrying 134 lbs.......yet his record still stands.

[avance2000]

by the way......really good idea for a thread.

[Revolution]

If Dr. Fager's record is so impressive how come he shares it with Najran, who wasn't exactly a superhorse?

Secretariats record is all by itself.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Revolution

If Dr. Fager's record is so impressive how come he shares it with Najran, who wasn't exactly a superhorse?

Huh? So impressive? For starters, no one equalled it between 1968 and 2003. I guess there weren't too many dirt miles run in those 35 years...

Najran was no Dr. Fager, but he was VERY fast, and when really right, in 2003, exceptionally fast. In addition to his 1:32.1 mile, he also ripped a 1:08.1 6f in the Phoenix. And as an aside, Fager's record came carrying 132, Najhran 113.

Denegrating Fager's record by associating it negatively with Najran is illogical. Fager's record and performance level is basically without parallel in American racing history.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revolution

If Dr. Fager's record is so impressive how come he shares it with Najran, who wasn't exactly a superhorse?

Secretariats record is all by itself.

yeah, i'll bet najran was carrying the same weight too.....


i'd take the docs and the bids. had spectacular bid run 12 that day, secs record would have gone down.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Revolution

If Dr. Fager's record is so impressive how come he shares it with Najran, who wasn't exactly a superhorse?

Secretariats record is all by itself.

Sometimes the tracks are souped up on different days, therefore, allowing an inferior horse to set track records. Of course, the combination of the track being souped up and Najran running his heart out could have equalled Dr. Fager's record. How come all of the great horses who have run at 8 furlongs couldn't beat or equal Dr. Fager's record? Also, Dr. Fager was carrying 134 pounds.

Also, Spectacular Bid was a better horse than Secretariat IMO. Secretariat never came close to SB's mile and a quarter record. The mile and a quarter distance is the most important distance for classic horses. That is why both the Kentucky Derby and the Breeder's Cup Classic are run at that distance in addition to the Hollywood Gold Cup, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Santa Anita Handicap, Pacific Classic, Travers, and Suburban. An argument for Secretariat would be that he still holds the track and stakes record at Churchill Downs. Of course, SB remains in a league of his own as a four year old still today. No horse could have matched SB as a four year old. None. He proved that by setting numerous records, having a walk-over, and going out undefeated for his four year old year. A phenomenal racehorse...

Of course, I don't think that any horse could have matched Secretariat in his three year old year either...

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Sometimes the tracks are souped up on different days, therefore, allowing an inferior horse to set track records. Of course, the combination of the track being souped up and Najran running his heart out could have equalled Dr. Fager's record. How come all of the great horses who have run at 8 furlongs couldn't beat or equal Dr. Fager's record? Also, Dr. Fager was carrying 134 pounds.

Also, Spectacular Bid was a better horse than Secretariat IMO. Secretariat never came close to SB's mile and a quarter record. The mile and a quarter distance is the most important distance for classic horses. That is why both the Kentucky Derby and the Breeder's Cup Classic are run at that distance in addition to the Hollywood Gold Cup, Jockey Club Gold Cup, Santa Anita Handicap, Pacific Classic, Travers, and Suburban. An argument for Secretariat would be that he still holds the track and stakes record at Churchill Downs. Of course, SB remains in a league of his own as a four year old still today. No horse could have matched SB as a four year old. None. He proved that by setting numerous records, having a walk-over, and going out undefeated for his four year old year. A phenomenal racehorse...

Of course, I don't think that any horse could have matched Secretariat in his three year old year either...

How do you know the track wasn't souped up for Dr. Fager? Najran set his record on a weekday, so i doubt the track was souped up.

As for the Bid's record, he did it at age 4. Notice only 1 record is held by a 3yr old, and years ago there were so big races other than the Belmont run at 12f. Nobody has ever come close to it. Not close. Secretariat still holds the Kentucky Derby record, and every single year 20 of the top horses in the world try to break it, and despite the efforts of the track maintenance crew, nobody has come close.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Revolution

How do you know the track wasn't souped up for Dr. Fager? Najran set his record on a weekday, so i doubt the track was souped up.

As for the Bid's record, he did it at age 4. Notice only 1 record is held by a 3yr old, and years ago there were so big races other than the Belmont run at 12f. Nobody has ever come close to it. Not close. Secretariat still holds the Kentucky Derby record, and every single year 20 of the top horses in the world try to break it, and despite the efforts of the track maintenance crew, nobody has come close.

You don't know when the track is going to be souped up. It is usually caused by weather conditions and not track management.

Monarchos came close in 2000. Yet, there is another example of an inferior horse (sorry Monarchos) being the first to break two minutes in the Derby since Secretariat and Sham. Do you now see why the Najran comparison isn't logical?

Bellamy Road equalled Riva Ridge's record when he was a three year old...

It is also interesting that Belmont Park deepened and slowed the track down after Ruffian's death. So, no horse since Ruffian's death has had the chance to do what Secretariat did that day at Belmont. It is impossible. Of course, it may have been impossible anyway, but we will never know. The Belmont track will never be as fast as it was on that day. I'm not saying that it was all the track because it wasn't. Secretariat was just a great racehorse, and maybe the biggest freak that ever lived.

However, Spectacular Bid did more during his career, and was better overall.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

You don't know when the track is going to be souped up. It is usually caused by weather conditions and not track management.

Monarchos came close in 2000. Yet, there is another example of an inferior horse (sorry Monarchos) being the first to break two minutes in the Derby since Secretariat and Sham. Do you now see why the Najran comparison isn't logical?

Bellamy Road equalled Riva Ridge's record when he was a three year old...

It is also interesting that Belmont Park deepened and slowed the track down after Ruffian's death. So, no horse since Ruffian's death has had the chance to do what Secretariat did that day at Belmont. It is impossible. Of course, it may have been impossible anyway, but we will never know. The Belmont track will never be as fast as it was on that day. I'm not saying that it was all the track because it wasn't. Secretariat was just a great racehorse, and maybe the biggest freak that ever lived.

However, Spectacular Bid did more during his career, and was better overall.

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revolution

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

najran will have an * next to his name on that record, as he was carrying less weight than the horse he shares that record with. so it's not 'equal' in most peoples opinion. how could it be?
as for how was the bid on turf-i dont' recall him running on it, so who knows? that would be like asking how secretariat was at four.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Revolution

1) Najran shares the track record with Dr. Fager. There is no logical or illogical about anything. Najran is the world record holder.
2) Monarchos did not beat Secretariats track record, who cares about close
3) Weather has less to do with the track being souped up than track crews
4) Bellamy Road equaled Riva Ridge's track record at 9f, not Riva's world record at 9.5f. Bellamy is 2 full seconds short of the world record at 9f.
5) Secretariat is the only 3yr old with a world record.
6) Secretariat is a triple crown winner, Spectacular Bid is NOT. How was the Bid on the turf?

2) But he came close.
3) Ha...tell that to all the horses that constantly break records at tracks in which there would be NO reason for souping up the tracks for those horses.
4) Still, Bellamy Road equalled the track record at 9f and he was a three year old.
6) Spectacular Bid holds the mile and a quarter record...the most important distance. Also, Spectacular Bid equalled records as a two year old. Secretariat did not. Specatacular Bid was OVERALL the better horse who had just as good of a four year old year as Secretariat's three year old year. In fact, I think Secretariat's BSF average for his three year old year was at 115 and the Bid's BSF average was at 122 for his four year old year.

How was Secretariat as a four year old?

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

najran will have an * next to his name on that record, as he was carrying less weight than the horse he shares that record with. so it's not 'equal' in most peoples opinion. how could it be?
as for how was the bid on turf-i dont' recall him running on it, so who knows? that would be like asking how secretariat was at four.

He won't have any * next to it. That is ridiculous. Do we put an asterisk next to records because one is on a track that is known to be faster, or one that has a pace scenario that benefitted a horse?

Najran is a world record holder with Dr. Fager. It is that simple. The original poster needs to add Najran.

As for the Bid and Secretariat, the Bid could never be Secretariat, because Secretariat pulled off the toughest feat in the sport. He won the triple crown. The Bid couldn't get it done. There are no excuses when talking about greatness either. You either get it done or you don't.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Revolution

He won't have any * next to it. That is ridiculous. Do we put an asterisk next to records because one is on a track that is known to be faster, or one that has a pace scenario that benefitted a horse?

Najran is a world record holder with Dr. Fager. It is that simple. The original poster needs to add Najran.

As for the Bid and Secretariat, the Bid could never be Secretariat, because Secretariat pulled off the toughest feat in the sport. He won the triple crown. The Bid couldn't get it done. There are no excuses when talking about greatness either. You either get it done or you don't.

yeah, i'm sure secretariats five losses were 'getting it done'...

as for the original poster, take up your issues with his question with him. i see no problem with only putting dr fager up there, since dr fager is the only one to break the mile record while carrying 134 pounds.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I'm with you on this one Danzig. Dr. Fager was a GREAT horse who deserves all the praise and credit in the world.

I think it's funny in how the TC is emphasized sooo much. Some not so great horses have won the TC, and some great horses that should have won the TC didn't for one reason or another.

Ghostzapper didn't win the TC and he was a freak. Kelso didn't win the TC either. Neither did Man O' War, Dr. Fager, Cigar, Spectacular Bid, Damascus, or Buckpasser. All were great horses. Some tried and failed. Some didn't even get the chance to run.

Nor could Secretariat have ever been the Bid...

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

yeah, i'm sure secretariats five losses were 'getting it done'...

as for the original poster, take up your issues with his question with him. i see no problem with only putting dr fager up there, since dr fager is the only one to break the mile record while carrying 134 pounds.

Weight means nothing when talking world records. So if a horse carries 135 and runs 10f in 158 and another carries 125 and runs it is 157.4, by your reasoning the horse carrrying 135 should get the record. It doesn't work that way. The horse with the faster time is the record holder. Both horses have the same time and therefore are both world record holders.