Worse KY Derby winner... - Page 5

ArlJim78 · #81 11-16-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

No that's more from Sportsman's having one of the most notoriously speed-biased surfaces, especially going two turns.

NT

War Emblem certainly wasn't one of the most accomplished Derby winners we've seen, but his derby win was impressive to me, setting all the fractions, honest fractions, and winning by a fairly large margin.

The Indomitable DrugS · #82 11-16-2007, 04:59 PM

Very little passing went on in his Derby win - and he never got any pressure.

I was personally more impressed with his Preakness win.

The Indomitable DrugS · #83 11-16-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Also, Sir Barton had finished second in the biggest 2yo stakes race, The Futurity, where maidens got a tremendous weight break.

after running 16th in the Hopeful. 7th beaten 20 in the Sanford. 9th beaten 16 in what is now the Saratoga Special. 9th beaten 15 in the Flash Stakes. And a 5th place finish in the Tremont on debut.

ArlJim78 · #84 11-16-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Very little passing went on in his Derby win - and he never got any pressure.

I was personally more impressed with his Preakness win.

me too, and thats why i would question placing in contention for worst derby winner. he ran 3-4 races that spring of decent quality, whereas some of the other derby winners that have been discussed here did not.

AeWingnut · #85 11-16-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

War Emblem certainly wasn't one of the most accomplished Derby winners we've seen, but his derby win was impressive to me, setting all the fractions, honest fractions, and winning by a fairly large margin.

it was a conveyor belt that day. Very disgusting.

ArlJim78 · #86 11-16-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

it was a conveyor belt that day. Very disgusting.

so in your view is he the worst derby winner?

Revidere · #87 11-21-2007, 03:35 PM

It really seems that most of the hate for Giacomo was because he beat them. My luck notwithstanding, (I am proud to say that there was every indication that the race would fall apart) I thought if he ran his even race in the Derby he would win. His Breeders Cup Classic was excellent. Sorry. As for Mike Smith, before he nearly died at Saratoga, he was the man in the 90's.

Have a Thanksgiving!

Thunder Gulch · #88 11-22-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Worse than Giacomo?

You have left the building dude.

I realize you were still in diapers when Sea Hero won, but he did win the Champagne as a 2YO and the Travers as a 3YO.

Was he a monster? No. But he did win some decent races besides the Derby.

Absolutely agree. Sea Hero wasn't exactly consistent, but he could really pick his spots. How many others have pulled this triple?

I think it's Lil E Tee, losing to Giacomo by a nose. Giacomo ran decently in the triple crown series, and he did beat Afleet Alex. L E T...I can't recall anything of note.

War Emblem had a great 3 race stretch, bias or not. His Preakness was huge with the pace pressure he put away that day.

Boy that Thunder Gulch sure sucked.

AeWingnut · #89 11-22-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

so in your view is he the worst derby winner?

it was certainly one of the worst derby days

War Emblem the worst ? no.

I've only bet 11 derbies. I would say he was the 7th worst winner.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #90 11-22-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

it was certainly one of the worst derby days

War Emblem the worst ? no.

I've only bet 11 derbies. I would say he was the 7th worst winner.

the route he took to the derby in it self was a head shaker.. spanking the blue bloods via cicero ill... lnfao

Bravado2112 · #91 11-23-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

I think it's Lil E Tee, losing to Giacomo by a nose. Giacomo ran decently in the triple crown series, and he did beat Afleet Alex. L E T...I can't recall anything of note.

Lil E Tee? Really?

Lil E Tee was actually a pretty decent horse - certainly better than some of the horses mentioned in this thread like Giacomo and Sea Hero. His Derby win earned a 107 Beyer (well ahead of Giacomo's 100 and a number that compares favorably with the average recent Derby winning fig) and his overall record was 13: 7-4-1.

He was 3 for 6 as a three year old with wins in the Derby and Jim Beam, and a neck loss to Pine Bluff in the Arkansas Derby. He got hurt after the Preakness and didn't run again that year. He returned at 4 going 2 for 3, winning the Razorback and running 2nd in the Oaklawn Handicap before getting hurt again and being retired.

RolloTomasi · #92 11-24-2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revidere

It really seems that most of the hate for Giacomo was because he beat them.

Oh yeah? Impressive deduction. This is a thread on worst Derby winners, right? So most people are gonna pick the big longshots that didn't figure, of which, Giacomo is a prime example.

But let me guess, you bet the sh!t out of Giacomo?...

Quote:

My luck notwithstanding,

Uh-oh...here we go...

Quote:

(I am proud to say that there was every indication that the race would fall apart)

...thus leaving the race at the mercy at the only closer in the race, Giacomo.

His romping half-length victory left no doubt as to who the best horse was.

Quote:

I thought if he ran his even race in the Derby he would win.

So, basically, the whole basis of your handicapping theory is the "Tortoise and the Hare" story?

Eeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaa....what's up, doc?

Quote:

Have a Thanksgiving!

Whoa! You made so much money on Giacomo that now you've become a modern day Ebenezzer Scrooge?

You're so stingy, you won't even give away a "Happy" or a "Merry" or a "Nice"?

I guess I'll leave it to the Ghost of Christmas Future to tell you why Giacomo was the worst Derby winner of the last 20 years...

horseofcourse · #93 11-24-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

Lil E Tee? Really?

Lil E Tee was actually a pretty decent horse - certainly better than some of the horses mentioned in this thread like Giacomo and Sea Hero. His Derby win earned a 107 Beyer (well ahead of Giacomo's 100 and a number that compares favorably with the average recent Derby winning fig) and his overall record was 13: 7-4-1.

He was 3 for 6 as a three year old with wins in the Derby and Jim Beam, and a neck loss to Pine Bluff in the Arkansas Derby. He got hurt after the Preakness and didn't run again that year. He returned at 4 going 2 for 3, winning the Razorback and running 2nd in the Oaklawn Handicap before getting hurt again and being retired.

I agree. I've never understood the lack of love for Lil E Tee. You win over half your career races including the Ky Derby, and the only race you are out of the money in your life is in the Preakness, I'd say you're a pretty decent horse. OF recent Derby winners I'd rate him at least as good as or better than are Giacomo, Funny Cide, War Emblem, Charismatic, Grindstone, Go For Gin, Sea Hero. I think I posted this earlier in the thread...so this post is pretty much useless.