Did Mario Pino cause Hard Spuns loss??

MisterB · #1 02-26-2007, 02:11 PM

Slow break, and pulling him back, rating, instead of gunning him?

Or you going to call it his one time clunker?

miraja2 · #2 02-26-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Slow break, and pulling him back, rating, instead of gunning him?

Or you going to call it his one time clunker?

I certainly don't think Pino "caused the loss." No jock could have won that race with that horse. Was it a "one time clunker." Maybe. Or maybe he was simply highly overrated. We'll know more after his next start.

MisterB · #3 02-26-2007, 02:24 PM

I don't think 4 wide, then 5 wide helped any.

Mac88 · #4 02-26-2007, 02:31 PM

Thought I read connections felt he was not handling the track which is a common excuse but can obviously be true. If so my question is why bring him back for the Rebel if that is indeed the plan?

The Indomitable DrugS · #5 02-26-2007, 02:32 PM

I'm pretty sure Pino was riding to instructions.

The Indomitable DrugS · #6 02-26-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjf1031

Thought I read connections felt he was not handling the track which is a common excuse but can obviously be true. If so my question is why bring him back for the Rebel if that is indeed the plan?

Because he was handling the track just fine....and that is a wildly over-used excuse.

Mac88 · #7 02-26-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Because he was handling the track just fine....and that is a wildly over-used excuse.

Agreed. That was what I was getting at.

smartyalex · #8 02-26-2007, 02:48 PM

Larry Jones said "he was out there on the deepest part of the racetrack the entire race. I went over the charts of the weekend races, and it was obvious there was a real inside speed bias". However, could he explain why Officer Rocket went wide down the stretch OUTSIDE of Hard Spun and blew past him while gaining ground???

Mac88 · #9 02-26-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartyalex

Larry Jones said "he was out there on the deepest part of the racetrack the entire race. I went over the charts of the weekend races, and it was obvious there was a real inside speed bias". However, could he explain why Officer Rocket went wide down the stretch OUTSIDE of Hard Spun and blew past him while gaining ground???

Well, thats the big question. Either Hard Spun threw in a clunker and it has nothing to do with the track and jockey or Officer Rocket is a definite horse to watch this Spring. Would lean to option #1

smartyalex · #10 02-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjf1031

Well, thats the big question. Either Hard Spun threw in a clunker and it has nothing to do with the track and jockey or Officer Rocket is a definite horse to watch this Spring. Would lean to option #1

Well, I certainly wouldn't agree with you! I believe O.R. is a much better horse than Hard Spun. We'll see in March.

Mac88 · #11 02-26-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartyalex

Well, I certainly wouldn't agree with you! I believe O.R. is a much better horse than Hard Spun. We'll see in March.

I think you are reading what I am saying the wrong way. Saying that since the point of the thread was that Pino cost him the race, I feel it was neither the track or the jock.

By that same token I do not believe Officer Rocket will be a force this Spring on TC trail. Now if you are talking about what horse I would prefer in the Rebel, I still would lean to Hard Spun just based on the fact that while I do not believe track or jock had much effect, I still think one clunker is not enough to give up on himn and he will prove to be a better horse if both stay sound down the line

ArlJim78 · #12 02-26-2007, 03:19 PM

Lets say Pino guns him from the gate and he sweeps around the field and takes the lead on the backstretch. How strong would he have been down the lane? He would have still got beaten. This horse slows down dramtically in the later stages of his routes.

The answer to the original question is neither. It wasn't a clunker and the ride didn't cost him the win.

Heck, you might say that he improved because his beyer came back at 95, same as his first route despite having a more difficult trip.

tiznowthegreat · #13 02-26-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjf1031

Thought I read connections felt he was not handling the track which is a common excuse but can obviously be true. If so my question is why bring him back for the Rebel if that is indeed the plan?

Jones did say that unless they change something with the track that he very well might go somehwere else. I don't know what exactly he expects them to change but not coming back for the Rebel is definitely an option.

MisterB · #14 02-26-2007, 03:29 PM

His 2 turn debut was nothing but perfect, taking off like a rocket. He also trained lights out on this track, so I think larry is fishing. His speed is his racing style, and Pino took him out of it. Never had a chance rating him. He would have had a better shot gunning, and using his talent, not hiding it.

The Indomitable DrugS · #15 02-26-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Lets say Pino guns him from the gate and he sweeps around the field and takes the lead on the backstretch. How strong would he have been down the lane?

Considering how comically slow the pace was---Pino wouldn't have had to gun him to make the lead.

And another poster mentioned Officer Rocket---he saved every inch of ground in that race

ArlJim78 · #16 02-26-2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

His 2 turn debut was nothing but perfect, taking off like a rocket. He also trained lights out on this track, so I think larry is fishing. His speed is his racing style, and Pino took him out of it. Never had a chance rating him. He would have had a better shot gunning, and using his talent, not hiding it.

Okay, so you say he was taken out of his favorite running style, his talent was hidden, etc. Why then was the Beyer the same as the previous race? Shouldn't all of these negative factors have showed up in his speed rating?

ArlJim78 · #17 02-26-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Considering how comically slow the pace was---Pino wouldn't have had to gun him to make the lead.

And another poster mentioned Officer Rocket---he saved every inch of ground in that race

Okay, but since Pino didn't gun him, shouldn't we have witnessed some awesome burst of speed from him on the backstrech and turn. I still don't get how if this is such a big derby prospect that with that MILD bit of trip trouble that he had in the Southwest, he still ends up slowing and getting passed in the stretch run of a one mile race.

MisterB · #18 02-26-2007, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Okay, so you say he was taken out of his favorite running style, his talent was hidden, etc. Why then was the Beyer the same as the previous race? Shouldn't all of these negative factors have showed up in his speed rating?

I don't put to much faith on Beyer figs. They don't win races, and get betters thinking wrong.

MisterB · #19 02-26-2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Okay, but since Pino didn't gun him, shouldn't we have witnessed some awesome burst of speed from him on the backstrech and turn. I still don't get how if this is such a big derby prospect that with that MILD bit of trip trouble that he had in the Southwest, he still ends up slowing and getting passed in the stretch run of a one mile race.

He was four wide on the first turn and at the half-mile pole, he was five wide.

That will take allot out of any horse.

ArlJim78 · #20 02-26-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

He was four wide on the first turn and at the half-mile pole, he was five wide.

That will take allot out of any horse.

I didn't see the trip as being that bad. To me it looked very ordinary given the post. He showed me very little in that race.

Good luck with him, you'll need it.