Horse VS Trainer

[Java Gold]

In reading the post about Empire Maker being better than Funny Cide and vice versa it reminded me of Easy Goer VS Sunday Silence. I have come to learn that trainers play such an important role in the development of these young animals.

With Funny Cide & Empire Maker you had the very crafty Barclay Tagg a relative unknown to many at the time (unless you waited for Toga on the grass to hit a score) against the powerful stable of Bobby Frankel. How could a NY bred dare challenge the Blueblood breeding of Empire Maker. As we have all come to know Bobby Frankel clearly accepted that he did not train Empire Maker correctly and therefore went into the Derby that year with a suspect Empire Maker and with a bum foot.

Easy Goer & Shugs against the Bald Eagle and Sunday Silence.. another training blunder on Shugs as he was more in love with the bottle than he was at training Easy Goer to his fullest potential. So there sits the Bald Eagle just waiting to hook Easy Goer and we all know what happened in the end. The only similarity between Empire Maker and Easy Goer is that they were able to win the Belmont on pure breeding to get the grueling 1 1/2 miles.

My point is one that you must clearly know that your trainer in such high profile races are on top of their game. It was evident to me during the 80's at Siro's in Saratoga in the wee hours watching Shugs pound down the sauce that he was a trainer I had no problem with avoiding at the window.

Quite frankly I am shocked that the Phipps family retained him after all was said and done. We were robbed in my opinion of seeing a great horse in Easy Goer who raced on his pure talent with little handling from his trainer.

Today ex trainer Frank Labocetta of NYRA circuit was convicted on several drug related charges after he went head on into a van about 3 miles away from Saratoga last year. Cops found heroin in the vehicle and was also in his system. Sad ending to a trainer....get my point...

Now if you want to know about the late jockey Chris Antley in the 80's at Saratoga and his late night activity...ah well save that one for another time...but let me tell you I am amazed that the dude lived as long as he did for as much as he did.

Java Gold ...now thats a horse that was trained brilliantly!! Mack Miller!!

[JDank34]

Java....nice to know you are PERFECT.

[Java Gold]

Whats your problem....Just stating my opinion. You don't like it move on. Better yet tell us all your good knowledge of the game seeing you never have posted a thread..but chirped in on 7 others.

JG

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Java Gold

In reading the post about Empire Maker being better than Funny Cide and vice versa it reminded me of Easy Goer VS Sunday Silence. I have come to learn that trainers play such an important role in the development of these young animals.

With Funny Cide & Empire Maker you had the very crafty Barclay Tagg a relative unknown to many at the time (unless you waited for Toga on the grass to hit a score) against the powerful stable of Bobby Frankel. How could a NY bred dare challenge the Blueblood breeding of Empire Maker. As we have all come to know Bobby Frankel clearly accepted that he did not train Empire Maker correctly and therefore went into the Derby that year with a suspect Empire Maker and with a bum foot.

Easy Goer & Shugs against the Bald Eagle and Sunday Silence.. another training blunder on Shugs as he was more in love with the bottle than he was at training Easy Goer to his fullest potential. So there sits the Bald Eagle just waiting to hook Easy Goer and we all know what happened in the end. The only similarity between Empire Maker and Easy Goer is that they were able to win the Belmont on pure breeding to get the grueling 1 1/2 miles.

My point is one that you must clearly know that your trainer in such high profile races are on top of their game. It was evident to me during the 80's at Siro's in Saratoga in the wee hours watching Shugs pound down the sauce that he was a trainer I had no problem with avoiding at the window.

Quite frankly I am shocked that the Phipps family retained him after all was said and done. We were robbed in my opinion of seeing a great horse in Easy Goer who raced on his pure talent with little handling from his trainer. Today ex trainer Frank Labocetta of NYRA circuit was convicted on several drug related charges after he went head on into a van about 3 miles away from Saratoga last year. Cops found heroin in the vehicle and was also in his system. Sad ending to a trainer....get my point...

Now if you want to know about the late jockey Chris Antley in the 80's at Saratoga and his late night activity...ah well save that one for another time...but let me tell you I am amazed that the dude lived as long as he did for as much as he did.

Java Gold ...now thats a horse that was trained brilliantly!! Mack Miller!!

i've only ever seen kudos to shug for his handling of easy goer, and getting him as far as he did with his ankles.

[JDank34]

java...i HAVE posted threads...however the server crashed and my data was lost. BUT posting a thread does not make me a racing expert like your response might suggest. I just know for a fact that Easy Goer was a very tough horse with HORRIBLE ankles that Shug made into a legend and stallion. I just wondered how you could totally trash a Hall Of Fame trainer because of some personal issues he has overcome?????????????

[Java Gold]

This is not a trashing of the Hall of Famer shuggies trust me. He was able to train Lure to back to back BC Turf wins. Great trainer lucky enough to have deep pockets aka the Phipps family. It would be interesting to see what he could do without them day in day out.

Did you ever think that Shugs was pretty much hands off with Easy Goer during his "personal" issue and Easy Goer was handled by his assistants?

However If you really think Easy Goer was a legend you are truly mistaken. Really good horse..you bet...legend I think not... lets save the legends for the likes of Man O War, Damascus, Whirlaway, Citation.etc... Easy Goer? Not a chance.

Good jabbing with JDank

JG

[JDank34]

JG...good jabbing with you too. That is why I really enjoy this forum...everyone here obviously spends a considerable amount of time following their favorite horses, trainers, jockeys, etc....and we ALL love this industry. While we all have our own opinions I feel the industry needs more people like the DT'ers to survive. We have opinions, we bet, we follow horses, trainers, trends, rules, track bias', and many others.....I LOVE the thoroughbred industry. I would follow it everyday if there were no wagering, HOWEVER I LOVE to bet as well. With this being said I hope people like us can continue to help educate our friends about what a great game this is...whether you like to gamble, attend sales, claim horses, handicap, attend races as a social event, breed, pinhook, follow bloodlines, etc...there are so many avenues to a great hobby/business available.

[Java Gold]

Thanks...well written. I am glad now that you responded to my thread. Look forward to reading more from you!

If you ever want to hear about Antley let me know ...lol

JG

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Java Gold

In reading the post about Empire Maker being better than Funny Cide and vice versa it reminded me of Easy Goer VS Sunday Silence. I have come to learn that trainers play such an important role in the development of these young animals.

With Funny Cide & Empire Maker you had the very crafty Barclay Tagg a relative unknown to many at the time (unless you waited for Toga on the grass to hit a score) against the powerful stable of Bobby Frankel. How could a NY bred dare challenge the Blueblood breeding of Empire Maker. As we have all come to know Bobby Frankel clearly accepted that he did not train Empire Maker correctly and therefore went into the Derby that year with a suspect Empire Maker and with a bum foot.

Easy Goer & Shugs against the Bald Eagle and Sunday Silence.. another training blunder on Shugs as he was more in love with the bottle than he was at training Easy Goer to his fullest potential. So there sits the Bald Eagle just waiting to hook Easy Goer and we all know what happened in the end. The only similarity between Empire Maker and Easy Goer is that they were able to win the Belmont on pure breeding to get the grueling 1 1/2 miles.

My point is one that you must clearly know that your trainer in such high profile races are on top of their game. It was evident to me during the 80's at Siro's in Saratoga in the wee hours watching Shugs pound down the sauce that he was a trainer I had no problem with avoiding at the window.

Quite frankly I am shocked that the Phipps family retained him after all was said and done. We were robbed in my opinion of seeing a great horse in Easy Goer who raced on his pure talent with little handling from his trainer.

Today ex trainer Frank Labocetta of NYRA circuit was convicted on several drug related charges after he went head on into a van about 3 miles away from Saratoga last year. Cops found heroin in the vehicle and was also in his system. Sad ending to a trainer....get my point...

Now if you want to know about the late jockey Chris Antley in the 80's at Saratoga and his late night activity...ah well save that one for another time...but let me tell you I am amazed that the dude lived as long as he did for as much as he did.

Java Gold ...now thats a horse that was trained brilliantly!! Mack Miller!!

I would venture that one of the safest bets in American racing is that Charlie Whittingham could drink Shug under the table. And Woody was not afraid to imbibe in a little bourbon and didn't stop him from winning 5 Belmonts. Fact is that Sunday Silence was a little bit better horse regardless of trainers.