why not have a p4 carryover at gulfstream

Monmouth and Sam Houston have carryovers for p4, why not Gulfstream ? They paid out 3 of 4 for $974 today, and there were 5 live horses for 4/4 out of 12 running. There were 4 @ $123K and 1 at $61K for $2. What a boost it would give them to have a $100-200k p4 carryover for the next day, when their P6 doesnot get much play. Since the racing secretary is inserting $6500 claimers and 12500nw2l as part of the p4 sequence, I have stopped playing them. I will not shotgun a p4, if its not handicappable, its not getting my $$$. BUT, if they changed their rules and had a p4 carryover, it might get very interesting.

[robfla]

better yet.. how about an early pick 4 - races 1-4.. How can a major track like GP limit itself to ONLY one p4 on a card.

racing secr. doesnt care?

Originally Posted by robfla

better yet.. how about an early pick 4 - races 1-4.. How can a major track like GP limit itself to ONLY one p4 on a card.

racing secr. doesnt care?

The idea is there, unfortunately the racing is not. would you really bet an early p4 with the type and quality of races that they run early on the card ?
I wouldnot. I have pretty much stopped betting the p4 they have due to the inclusion of low level claiming races along with 25 maiden claimers going a 1 turn mile. If I can' t handicap the races in the sequence with an opinion, i will pass, i will not throw money at it.

OTOH, if they had a carryover of $100K , there would at least be an incentive to GET Interested !

BTW - Gulfstream is not a major track, it is just the wintertime track where everyone goes to work on their tan while getting the horses ready for the season ahead. they have to start somewhere.

[PPerfectfan]

I didnt realize that Gulf only had one Pick 4. That is crazy. Why not let the bettors bet?

[robfla]

Originally Posted by point given

BTW - Gulfstream is not a major track, it is just the wintertime track where everyone goes to work on their tan while getting the horses ready for the season ahead. they have to start somewhere.

What is a major track in your opinion?


and as far as the carryover, I would be willing to guess that the 3 out of 4 yesterday was the first and will be the only all meet.

I'd much rather have two - Pick 4's per day than patiently waiting for a carryover that might happen once. It is also not fair for the bettors who bet the one that wasnt hit not to get a consolation if they cant indulge in the next one.

Originally Posted by robfla

What is a major track in your opinion?


and as far as the carryover, I would be willing to guess that the 3 out of 4 yesterday was the first and will be the only all meet.

I'd much rather have two - Pick 4's per day than patiently waiting for a carryover that might happen once. It is also not fair for the bettors who bet the one that wasnt hit not to get a consolation if they cant indulge in the next one.

1 - I may be in error here, as I personally donot consider Gulfstream a major track, BUT, 2 websites i visited consider it an "A" level track. Basically, I consider the NY tracks, Kentucky tracks, SCal tracks and Arlington to be major. Take a look in the DRF at the purse values in their chart . The Bodog and Betcris sites consider Gulf an "A" http://www.bodog.com/racebook/guide/...ing-tracks.jsp
http://www.betcris.com/horses-thorou...ack-lists.aspx

2. You may be right about yesterdays p4 being the only one all meet, but the way the racing secretary is putting them together, it may happen again. Magna has been screwing with the west coast P6 sequence of races and with the Magna 5 races to make them tough and guarantee large payoffs and carryovers. I don't cotton to this and donot play the bets anymore for this reason, but don't let me hold youback in pursuing it, its just my own take on it. They are catering to large bettors or groups who put together large tickets. Its all about churn.

3. As far as a P4 carryover not being fair to the bettors who had 3 of 4; horse pucky ! They would get a conso, just like the p6 bettors get a conso for 5 of 6. They also have the opportunity to get involved in the next P4 the track offers . and don't think that they wouldn't relish a large carryover pool, just as the p6 bettors do. The P4 is the poor mans P6. There are 2 less races and the minimum bet is $1 instead of $2 ,so the little guy can buy more combinations. Don't get me wrong though, I would welcome an early P4 as well, on say the 2nd thru 5th races, and the late on the 6-9th. I tend to think I wouldnot play it as much though, as the early races, are usually cheap races and the late ones more formful. This is the reason I'm not playing the p4 there much anymore too, since they started putting cheap races into the p4 sequence. If I like the sequence, I'll step up and bet, but lately it hasnot been the case.

[robfla]

Originally Posted by point given

1 - I may be in error here, as I personally donot consider Gulfstream a major track, BUT, 2 websites i visited consider it an "A" level track. Basically, I consider the NY tracks, Kentucky tracks, SCal tracks and Arlington to be major. Take a look in the DRF at the purse values in their chart . The Bodog and Betcris sites consider Gulf an "A" http://www.bodog.com/racebook/guide/...ing-tracks.jsp
http://www.betcris.com/horses-thorou...ack-lists.aspx

GP is DEFINATELY an "A" track. this to me is not debatable. Yes, other tracks may have higher purses, but that could change next year with the slot money.

Originally Posted by point given

2. You may be right about yesterdays p4 being the only one all meet, but the way the racing secretary is putting them together, it may happen again. Magna has been screwing with the west coast P6 sequence of races and with the Magna 5 races to make them tough and guarantee large payoffs and carryovers. I don't cotton to this and donot play the bets anymore for this reason, but don't let me hold youback in pursuing it, its just my own take on it. They are catering to large bettors or groups who put together large tickets. Its all about churn.

Agreed with regards to the Magna 5. I haven't played it this year due to exactly what you mentioned. It is for the whales.

Originally Posted by point given

3. As far as a P4 carryover not being fair to the bettors who had 3 of 4; horse pucky ! They would get a conso, just like the p6 bettors get a conso for 5 of 6. They also have the opportunity to get involved in the next P4 the track offers . and don't think that they wouldn't relish a large carryover pool, just as the p6 bettors do. The P4 is the poor mans P6. There are 2 less races and the minimum bet is $1 instead of $2 ,so the little guy can buy more combinations. Don't get me wrong though, I would welcome an early P4 as well, on say the 2nd thru 5th races, and the late on the 6-9th. I tend to think I wouldnot play it as much though, as the early races, are usually cheap races and the late ones more formful. This is the reason I'm not playing the p4 there much anymore too, since they started putting cheap races into the p4 sequence. If I like the sequence, I'll step up and bet, but lately it hasnot been the case.

I don't think the other tracks that have a carryover on the P4 give out a conso for 3 outa 4.. This is just a guess.

I kinda like MCL25k races to use in horizontal wagers. Thats where the value is. True you need deeper pockets, but doesn't it make sense to put more into the P4 and less into the previous races.

So, lets use the number 200 as a bankroll. instead of playing 30,30,30,30,80 throughout the day in pick3's and then the pick 4. I suggest playing 20,20,20,20 in pick 3's and 120 in the pick 4. - better yet.. if there were 2 pick 4's i'd just as soon make them my only two plays

Originally Posted by robfla

GP is DEFINATELY an "A" track. this to me is not debatable. Yes, other tracks may have higher purses, but that could change next year with the slot money.


Agreed with regards to the Magna 5. I haven't played it this year due to exactly what you mentioned. It is for the whales.



I don't think the other tracks that have a carryover on the P4 give out a conso for 3 outa 4.. This is just a guess.

I kinda like MCL25k races to use in horizontal wagers. Thats where the value is. True you need deeper pockets, but doesn't it make sense to put more into the P4 and less into the previous races.

So, lets use the number 200 as a bankroll. instead of playing 30,30,30,30,80 throughout the day in pick3's and then the pick 4. I suggest playing 20,20,20,20 in pick 3's and 120 in the pick 4. - better yet.. if there were 2 pick 4's i'd just as soon make them my only two plays

I try not to spread so much, as you suggest in your examples. it depends how i feel about the sequences, like I said. I have tracked my p3/p4 play and I am trying to not waste as much chasing loose plays and look for more plays where I have a stronger opinion. In cutting back on the p4, i have instead tried to play both p3s and find i hit more of those without hitting the p4 if i had played that. Try doing it on paper and see how you'd make out. BTW, have you tracked your p3 and P4 play ?

I just wish they would institute 10 cent supers like santa anita. I have fun with those and have a pretty good ROI, but they leave those for the deep pockets crowd. I am a Steve Crist fan and I favor lowering the playing field , so that more players can afford the bet and to get around the IRS tax, much like the 50 cent trifecta . The tax laws are archaic and need to be changed, but the racing institutions seem little concerned about this area, though as Crist points out, they would benefit tremendously by tax law changes for thier customers. Ah well .................

[robfla]

the 10 cent super suggestion magnifies my point. Gulfstream does NOT care about the bettors.

* only one P4
* no 10 cent super
* poor placing of magna 5 races
* bad off the turf policy
* put a 12 horse MSW race in the middle of P4/P6

etc, etc



all they care about are the slots.

Originally Posted by robfla

the 10 cent super suggestion magnifies my point. Gulfstream does NOT care about the bettors.

* only one P4
* no 10 cent super
* poor placing of magna 5 races
* bad off the turf policy
* put a 12 horse MSW race in the middle of P4/P6

etc, etc




all they care about are the slots.

We are in complete agreement ! particularly when santa anita is a magna track and you can bet it online, but not at gulfstream. BUT, as herr stronach says, horseracing is our number one business. NOT !

[philcski]

Originally Posted by robfla

GP is DEFINATELY an "A" track. this to me is not debatable. Yes, other tracks may have higher purses, but that could change next year with the slot money.
Agreed with regards to the Magna 5. I haven't played it this year due to exactly what you mentioned. It is for the whales.



I don't think the other tracks that have a carryover on the P4 give out a conso for 3 outa 4.. This is just a guess.

I kinda like MCL25k races to use in horizontal wagers. Thats where the value is. True you need deeper pockets, but doesn't it make sense to put more into the P4 and less into the previous races.

So, lets use the number 200 as a bankroll. instead of playing 30,30,30,30,80 throughout the day in pick3's and then the pick 4. I suggest playing 20,20,20,20 in pick 3's and 120 in the pick 4. - better yet.. if there were 2 pick 4's i'd just as soon make them my only two plays

They're already paying more than NY and NJ in their first year of slots.

[randallscott35]

A level is strong. B+...It doesn't compare to a Santa Anita, Belmont or Churchill---B+ is fair.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by point given

I try not to spread so much, as you suggest in your examples. it depends how i feel about the sequences, like I said. I have tracked my p3/p4 play and I am trying to not waste as much chasing loose plays and look for more plays where I have a stronger opinion. In cutting back on the p4, i have instead tried to play both p3s and find i hit more of those without hitting the p4 if i had played that. Try doing it on paper and see how you'd make out. BTW, have you tracked your p3 and P4 play ?

I just wish they would institute 10 cent supers like santa anita. I have fun with those and have a pretty good ROI, but they leave those for the deep pockets crowd. I am a Steve Crist fan and I favor lowering the playing field , so that more players can afford the bet and to get around the IRS tax, much like the 50 cent trifecta . The tax laws are archaic and need to be changed, but the racing institutions seem little concerned about this area, though as Crist points out, they would benefit tremendously by tax law changes for thier customers. Ah well .................

This is total bullsh!t, I agree. I got just got an audit for a 2005(!) return in the mail because apparently I didn't claim and deduct one 1099G properly. Are you f*cking kidding me? You just took 50% of my bonus in taxes and you're nickel and diming me over a goddamn $3,500 p4 (which you're not going to get a cent of)?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

A level is strong. B+...It doesn't compare to a Santa Anita, Belmont or Churchill---B+ is fair.

Churchill????? you are joking right?

[Antitrust32]

Keeneland, if you are going with a KY track, but not churchill

Originally Posted by philcski

They're already paying more than NY and NJ in their first year of slots.

AHA , but table games are nearly there for the Hardrock, and the Pompano track is building a separate building which should come online soon. Gulfstreams sluts have been getting less and less action, and half south fl will be gone in a matter of weeks. Of the typical $46 K allowance race purse, about $6K is for florida owners awards. I believe the typical days purses is something like $270 K . What is typical for NY, Kentucky and California ?

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by robfla

I don't think the other tracks that have a carryover on the P4 give out a conso for 3 outa 4.. This is just a guess.

I kinda like MCL25k races to use in horizontal wagers. Thats where the value is. True you need deeper pockets, but doesn't it make sense to put more into the P4 and less into the previous races.

So, lets use the number 200 as a bankroll. instead of playing 30,30,30,30,80 throughout the day in pick3's and then the pick 4. I suggest playing 20,20,20,20 in pick 3's and 120 in the pick 4. - better yet.. if there were 2 pick 4's i'd just as soon make them my only two plays

Most tracks with a p4 carryover DO pay on 3/4, they just pay a very low percentage of the pool out, and carryover the rest. Say they split 75% among those with 3 correct, and carryover the other 75%, just like a pick-6 carryover.

And sadly, Arlington is no longer an A track for whoever said it above. They have a quality racing product during the second half of their meet, but that's the only time, once the stakes kick in. They DO card some very competitive races and have some great wagering opportunities, but their overall meet-long product is not an "A" track anymore. On their good cards, they can match anyone with quality, but over the course of a meet they're still falling in the B range, much like an Oaklawn.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Most tracks with a p4 carryover DO pay on 3/4, they just pay a very low percentage of the pool out, and carryover the rest. Say they split 75% among those with 3 correct, and carryover the other 75%, just like a pick-6 carryover.

And sadly, Arlington is no longer an A track for whoever said it above. They have a quality racing product during the second half of their meet, but that's the only time, once the stakes kick in. They DO card some very competitive races and have some great wagering opportunities, but their overall meet-long product is not an "A" track anymore. On their good cards, they can match anyone with quality, but over the course of a meet they're still falling in the B range, much like an Oaklawn.

WOW ! Where do i sign up to bet, split 75% with 3 of 4 and carryover 75% ? NOw those are takeouts I can live with.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by point given

WOW ! Where do i sign up to bet, split 75% with 3 of 4 and carryover 75% ? NOw those are takeouts I can live with.

You got me. 25% for 3/4

[philcski]

Originally Posted by point given

AHA , but table games are nearly there for the Hardrock, and the Pompano track is building a separate building which should come online soon. Gulfstreams sluts have been getting less and less action, and half south fl will be gone in a matter of weeks. Of the typical $46 K allowance race purse, about $6K is for florida owners awards. I believe the typical days purses is something like $270 K . What is typical for NY, Kentucky and California ?

NY depends on the raceday (and season of course)... but weekdays it's about $350k i'd say?

I thought Hardrock already had table games? or just (real) poker (not the dog track $10 max phonypoker)?