saratoga the meet to shoot for

hoovesupsideyourhead · #1 06-27-2006, 08:03 AM

a im noticeing some trainers sending stock to del and such when they could run at belmont..is this in some part to get a price when they ship to toga...we are getting close to the meet and things are getting geared up...
b would you look less favorably on a horse coming from fl fingerlksdel suf if you were capping.........

Gander · #2 06-27-2006, 08:58 AM

Hooves- I dont think trainers who frequently run their horses at Saratoga need to worry about gambling. Their main focus is on the purses and getting their cut of them.

Not saying they dont bet their own horses and other horses when they know there own horses arent 100%, but I doubt very much they would go so far out of their way as to plan out where there horses run so they can make a bet next time out at a different track. That would be very odd to me.

Kasept · #3 06-27-2006, 09:13 AM

There are plenty of wiseguy barns that plot their spots for maximum betting opps... The Matties outfit being a textbook example... And out of town sheds have had famed runs for many years at different times at the Spa. There was a good spate of Rockingham shippers that scored for a few years from guys like Aro and Askimopolis in the early 90's. Barclay Tagg was famous for coming in "off the van" before he moved full time to NY. PHI-DEL shippers were doing great late in the AQU meet and early in the BEL meet this year...

If certain outfits are running outside BEL, there are any number of reasons for doing so. For starters, New Jersey is offering enormous pots of money this summer, and if you have a NJ-bred you'd be nuts to run anywhere else what with the fabulous breeder incentives they're offering... I doubt anyone is shipping out of NY to build a price for August at SAR though, as competition in those other spots will be lighter than in NY and most would likely clear their various conditions in those settings making it HARDER to win upstate in their subsequent starts...

#4 06-27-2006, 09:16 AM

Hooves,

Here is the story on all the horses who are running at Delaware and Monmouth that you might have seen in the past running at Belmont park.

This is a money game Hooves. Whether you are an owner, trainer, jockey, agent, whatever. Money is the goal. In the past when a guy who was stabled in the Mid Atlantic or NJ had a nice horse he shipped the horse to NY. Why? Well in some cases it was in part to try and cash a nice bet, but for the most part it was because Ny's purses so heavily outweighed those that were available in NJ or the Mid Atlantic (Maryland or Delaware). Then Delaware got slots and NJ got favorable legislation passed to heavily increase purses. The result was that purses in that neck of the woods got pretty large. Almost as big as NYRA's for the same conditions.

Shipping has never been a fun thing for trainers and its never option number one. Lots of horses don't react to the long van rides favorably and horses always run better when they are sticking to their daily routine. Then NYRA instituted the detention barn last year. The horses have to be in the barn 4 hours before their race. This means that when you ship you have to count on being there at least 4 1/2 hours early because you have to check in at the gate and their is often a line there. So lets say you have a four hour ship from Delaware. You have to leave 5 hours AHEAD of the time you are supposed to be in the test barn.

If you are scheduled to race at lets say 2 o o'clock in the third race, you have to be there by 9:30 to be safe, and you have to leave Delaware at 5 AM which means you have to start loading at 4:30 Am to be safe. Now you have to send a groom with the horse so hes not gonna be available to work all morning. Grooms have more than one horse so you are gonna be short on help. Is it worth it? I mean look at what you have to go through just to race. YOu can ship teh night before if you have a friend who is stabled at NYRA but you still have to send a groom and give him meal money and make sure he gets put up somewhere, money that comes from the trainers pocket and hes still short on help.

Its just not worth it now that the purses are so large in these places. YOU still see shippers for stakes races but it simply no longer makes sense to ship in for a claiming or allowance race when you can avoid that hassle and run at home for good money.
The detention barn is a great step in theory. But its cost us shippers and makes field size smaller. IN addition you may have noted that a lot of NY bred races are being run. The reason why is simple, they always fill up and have large fields.

You may also have noted that higher and mid priced claiming races have much smaller fields or in some cases just dont ever get run because they dont fill up, same as allowance races which on the dirt are as rare as the day is long. Reason is simple, those 1-2 shippers that would show up in the field no longer come and it leaves short fields. 2 year old MSW's have only been run like 6 times combined for fillies and mares since the Belmont meet opened (open condition, not S bred) and once again its because LOTS of out of town trainers used to ship in for these but now they dont bother and Pletcher has had to resort to shipping his very best two year olds down to CD or Monmouth because the races NEVER fill in ny for 2 yo MSW's.

Its not that trainers don't want to run in NY, its that the dtetntion barn has lead to very unrealistic time and help contstraints and simply has made staying home a more viable alternative.

#5 06-27-2006, 10:00 AM

So in summation, its really the purses in other spots.

Shipping has always been a pain, so the detention barn thing would be considered minor compared to the purse money. Maybe the last straw, but its really the advantage of staying put because of very good purses in your backyard.

Is this summation correct?

#6 06-27-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

So in summation, its really the purses in other spots.

Shipping has always been a pain, so the detention barn thing would be considered minor compared to the purse money. Maybe the last straw, but its really the advantage of staying put because of very good purses in your backyard.

Is this summation correct?

Yes but you are underestimating the detention barn and the hardships it causes. Its definitely moreso about better purses there but the detention barn is really a BIG final straw.

#7 06-27-2006, 10:15 AM

I dont know the physical distance between these tracks in the Northeast, but down here, its big. Gas alone would be considered a deterrent in addition to the stress on the horses. There is not a hauling truck I know of that gets double digit in miles per gallon. And with gas prices 33% higher (the days of hovering right beneath the 2 dollar mark are gone it appears) the gas is a significant money issue. So there are plenty of things about shipping that have changed.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #8 06-27-2006, 11:14 AM

thanks guys...i had a good imagination and it payed well at gulf ..horses that shipped in from suffolk ect 10 claimer ...why bring this one down for a limited barn ..cash ..he won easy and payed 26.00

ateamstupid · #9 06-27-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgardn

So in summation, its really the purses in other spots.

Shipping has always been a pain, so the detention barn thing would be considered minor compared to the purse money. Maybe the last straw, but its really the advantage of staying put because of very good purses in your backyard.

Is this summation correct?

In Summation...what ever happened to that horse?

#10 06-27-2006, 03:42 PM

The detention barn would be a pain in the butt like Oracle stated. I wouldnt want to get to the track 5 hours before I had too. Horse racing is going to change significantly if slots are in each state. I will be interested to see how many trainers go in a claim a New Jersey bred just to run him with those huge purses.