an alarming trend

[ShadowRoll]

Got this email today. You know, I think this obsession with speed in these two-year-olds is a very unhealthy thing. I wonder what happens to these young "record setters" after they get sold? How fast did the Green Monkey work at two?



"Two track records were set today at the first training preview consisting of the first half of the catalog of horses in the 2007 Barretts May Sale of Two-Year-Olds in Training. The second half of the catalog will preview on Friday.

The fastest quarter mile ever recorded at Barretts (and believed to be a record on a natural surface) was set by Hip 192, a colt by Carson City out of the stakes winning Vice Regent mare Cherie Yvonne from the consignment of B.C.3. Thoroughbreds, when he stopped the timer in 20 2/5.

The record time for a 3/8 mile work was also set when Hip 126, a colt by the Freshman sire Deputy Wild Cat from the consignment of Murray Smith, when he went the distance in 33 seconds flat.

Two horses tied for the fastest 1/8 mile work when they broke the magical 10 second barrier with a final time of 9 4/5. These two horses were Hip 2, a colt by Doneraile Court out of the winning Mountain Cat mare Radiantly from the consignment of B.C.3. Thoroughbreds, and Hip 53, a colt by Kentucky Derby winner Silver Charm who is the first foal out of a half sister to Japanese sensation Washington Color from the consignment of Murray Smith."

[pointman]

So much for the record price set last year, do these go for over $20 million and never see a racetrack?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The track was obviously very fast from looking at all the times....BAR May is far and away the lesser of the two Barretts 2yo in training sales.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by pointman

So much for the record price set last year, do these go for over $20 million and never see a racetrack?

Most of the fastest workers....certainly not the Carson City colt...will be lucky to bring 200K.

[Rudeboyelvis]

I'd love to see the percentages of these horses that ever pan out....like you said, the speed at which a 2yo performs undertack at a sale is the most overrated, overhyped nonsense that you can buy into.

Most of them are so buckshinned afterward they're laid up for 60-90 days anyhow...

It's terrible for the horses; It's sole purpose is to help separate lazy morons with deep pockets and no clue, from an inordinate amount of money that they can't wait to throw away on the next Derby winner, because we all know the fastest horse in the auction = DERBY WINNAR!!1!. Every year.

[Riot]

After their 90 days off, they can come back and sire racing QHs.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The horses who work fast, at the 1/4 mile distance, relative to all the other horses who work over the surface....they have exceptional, if not mind-boggling records when they race within a year of the sale.

The same doesn't hold true for 1/8th mile works.

I never thought a thread about Barretts May would go beyond two posts. It's pretty close to a fire sale.....and everything seemed capable of working in the low 10's and 21's over it yesterday...so it was more an exceptionally fast track than exceptionally fast performances. Perhaps the Carson City colt being the lone exception.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by ShadowRoll

How fast did the Green Monkey work at two?
[/b]

He worked a 9 and 4/5. So logic must dictate that they will both set the world on fire and should go for at least a few million a piece



By contrast, Bill Kaplan bought 3 horses from the APR '06 OBS 2yo in training sale last year. All marginal, if not sub par undertack works.

All three were on the Derby trail this year, two of them in the Derby, one of them rounding out the super.

Oh, he had less than 100k in the Three of them COMBINED.

People are so ready to throw mountains of money at things they know nothing of,... A true horseman with a great eye can do very well for himself "picking up the crumbs"

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I never thought a thread about Barretts May would go beyond two posts. .

DrugS,

This nonsense strikes a raw nerve with me. I go to the Undertack show at OBS every year. There are, MAYBE, one or two trainers there that take the time to be there in person to watch how the horses perform undertack, form, efficiency of movement, natural stride, how the gallop out, etc. - all of the nuances and idiosyncracies that can only be observed "real time" with a keen eye.

Compared with the bus loads of trainers/buyer agents that show up the day before the sale,sit in the video room all day and compare times. Maybe they don't need to work as hard as the dedicated few, but I know who is going represent me.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I would assume the "big boys" have agents who do all that stuff for them---and looking over the results of the three OBS 2yo sales from this year....I would say preview time is certainly not being over emphasized.

At OBS FEB- the sales topper, a Smoke Glacken colt, worked a 1/4 mile in 22 1/5th..only 1/5th faster than what Storm in May turned in last year...and it was far from the fastest time of the sale.

At OBS March- the 2nd highest price, albeit rather well bred, turned in a comically slow 23 1/5th workout...one of the slowest works of the entire sale.

At OBS April- the sales topper, of a 1,400 page catalog, worked a quarter mile in just 22 flat.

If you look at what happened at Barretts yesterday---in the history of Barretts sale (coming into '07), there have been five horses to work a sub-21 quarter mile. One was unraced---and the other four are Officer (Grade 1 winning 2yo), Arabian Light, (Grade 1 winning 2yo) Brother Derek (Grade 1 winning 2yo), and What A Song (undefeated Grade 2 winning 2yo, beat champion Stevie Wonderboy twice)

Because of that record---I think the track was made as fast as humanly possible to make the quickest of these cheap horses, fall in the company with the other stars who had their fast 1/4 mile previews over tracks that hadn't been tweaked to yield comically fast times.

Speeding up the track sure seemed to get that sale some attention anyway, and Barretts May needs all the attention they can muster.

[sumitas]

i just can't relate to pushing these kids all out.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Originally Posted by sumitas

i just can't relate to pushing these kids all out.

Steve and JJ had a guest on their show, I don't recall her name, but I believe she's a trainer at Arlington Park.
This topic came up while they were discussing 2yos, and she put it best, saying words to the effect of, "They start training them as yearlings to do something they never want to see a horse do the minute the sale's over - run the first 1/8th in 10 seconds"

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Steve and JJ had a guest on their show, I don't recall her name, but I believe she's a trainer at Arlington Park.
This topic came up while they were discussing 2yos, and she put it best, saying words to the effect of, "They start training them as yearlings to do something they never want to see a horse do the minute the sale's over - run the first 1/8th in 10 seconds"

While I agree with you....

It should still be noted that most of these horses who work "lights-out" have modest and speed laden pedigrees.

It's alarming how such a high percentage of them come from unraced dams. While there seems to be an uncommonly high attrition rate with these fast working 2yo's....it's fair to point out that these, in almost all occasions, are simply not well made, fashionably and stoutly bred type of horses.

In The Green Monkey's case---he broke a record 1/8th jointly set by '04 sales topper (and Derby 2nd place finisher) Lion Heart. However, he was a very expensive yearling ($425K) and the bidding war for him only came about because he was precieved as being "all-around flawless" to go along with the fact that he displayed brief fleetness under-tack.

People don't remember, but Tiz Wonderful worked a record 1/4 mile in 20 3/5ths at the very same sale, (Beating 105 Beyer debut winner Forest Music's 20 4/5 record) --- but, Tiz Wonderful sold for something like 30-to-35 times less money than The Green Monkey...because he didn't have as flashy a pedigree, wasn't considered to be as sound and well made.

I think it's inacuarte for people to assume TGM fetched all that money, off the basis of one fast-workout....the other horse to work in record time at that sale, went on to be the second best 2-year-old in the country last year...and he sold for a fraction of the cost.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by pointman

So much for the record price set last year, do these go for over $20 million and never see a racetrack?

I've seen horses work :9 4/5 that only sell for $50,000. As Drugs said, a fast time alone will not guarantee a big price. There are many other factors such as the way the horse moves, the horse's conformation, the horse's breeding, and the horse's soundness. Most potential buyers will also scope the horse. If the vet doesn't like the horse's throat, this can kill the price. There are a lot of factors.

At Barrett's May last year, there was a Red Bullet colt that worked :9 3/5. He sold for $2.5 million. There were a couple of other horses that worked :9 4/5 at that sale but I don't think either of those horses brought more than $150,000 or so. By the way, the Red Bullet colt that sold for $2.5 million will never make it to the races. He recently bowed a tendon and his career is over. I heard they sold him for $10,000.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

While I agree with you....

It should still be noted that most of these horses who work "lights-out" have modest and speed laden pedigrees.

It's alarming how such a high percentage of them come from unraced dams. While there seems to be an uncommonly high attrition rate with these fast working 2yo's....it's fair to point out that these, in almost all occasions, are simply not well made, fashionably and stoutly bred type of horses.

In The Green Monkey's case---he broke a record 1/8th jointly set by '04 sales topper (and Derby 2nd place finisher) Lion Heart. However, he was a very expensive yearling ($425K) and the bidding war for him only came about because he was precieved as being "all-around flawless" to go along with the fact that he displayed brief fleetness under-tack.

People don't remember, but Tiz Wonderful worked a record 1/4 mile in 20 3/5ths at the very same sale, (Beating 105 Beyer debut winner Forest Music's 20 4/5 record) --- but, Tiz Wonderful sold for something like 30-to-35 times less money than The Green Monkey...because he didn't have as flashy a pedigree, wasn't considered to be as sound and well made.

I think it's inacuarte for people to assume TGM fetched all that money, off the basis of one fast-workout....the other horse to work in record time at that sale, went on to be the second best 2-year-old in the country last year...and he sold for a fraction of the cost.

I remember that Tiz Wonderful did not work very fast at the first preview. He worked a quarter in :22 1/5. The track was much faster at the second preview. It was raining much of the day and the track was sloppy for much of the day. Tiz Wonderful worked much faster that day. He was on his left lead all the way but it didn't stop him from working :20 3/5.