jock change for hard spun?

Danzig · #1 05-23-2007, 06:06 PM

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...82/1002/SPORTS

i think if hard spun runs, they should call edgar!!!

Samarta · #2 05-23-2007, 06:11 PM

This has been a long time in the making.....Pino definately moved too early in the Preakness, but I don't think Pino is necessarily the entire problem...All you heard from the workout on Derby week through the post race interviews from Saturday was his high cruising speed. It just sounds to me that high cruising speed or not, you still have to bottle that speed at some point and I don't think they've done that at all. I would love to hear some professional opinions on that....Chuck? Steve? etc.....

ddthetide · #3 05-23-2007, 06:15 PM

imo, they should keep HS at 1 mile. he'd be MIGHTY tough to beat .

pick4 · #4 05-23-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samarta

This has been a long time in the making.....Pino definately moved too early in the Preakness, but I don't think Pino is necessarily the entire problem...All you heard from the workout on Derby week through the post race interviews from Saturday was his high cruising speed. It just sounds to me that high cruising speed or not, you still have to bottle that speed at some point and I don't think they've done that at all. I would love to hear some professional opinions on that....Chuck? Steve? etc.....

Belmont Park is the most unique track in America. If the connections can get Edgar Prado to ride Hard Spun I think it is a no brainer. An experienced Belmont Park rider like Edgar Praso could be a substantial edge in the Belmont Stakes.

AeWingnut · #5 05-23-2007, 06:20 PM

I don't know if you can pin this loss on the ride. I thought Hard Spun looked warm before the race. if it took 6 weeks to prep for the Derby why is he ready after 2 weeks in the Preakness?

I don't see anyone cracking the top three in the Belmont
but have to see who enters

Antitrust32 · #6 05-23-2007, 06:21 PM

"I admit, when we came back to the barn on Saturday, we were disappointed we didn't win. When we had time to think about it, we're proud of our horse. The winner tied a stakes record. We ran four-fifths of a second off that record. Secretariat, Citation didn't do that. He ran a good race. He didn't lay down in the stretch." - Larry Jones

I think he forgot about the clock malfunction. Secretariat wooped em'.

#7 05-23-2007, 06:24 PM

I'd like to see Larry Melancon get the mount.

Cannon Shell · #8 05-23-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samarta

This has been a long time in the making.....Pino definately moved too early in the Preakness, but I don't think Pino is necessarily the entire problem...All you heard from the workout on Derby week through the post race interviews from Saturday was his high cruising speed. It just sounds to me that high cruising speed or not, you still have to bottle that speed at some point and I don't think they've done that at all. I would love to hear some professional opinions on that....Chuck? Steve? etc.....

I think that he got antsy and moved too soon. Should they replace him? That's not for me to decide. I could see both sides of the story. I really dont like him in the Belmont anyway regardless of riders.

Samarta · #9 05-23-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think that he got antsy and moved too soon. Should they replace him? That's not for me to decide. I could see both sides of the story. I really dont like him in the Belmont anyway regardless of riders.

I don't know whether they should replace him or not...my question is more from a training perspective....you have a horse with what they are considering "high cruising speed" Does it make it harder to train it to rate? At the end of the day rating is rating isn't it? He's still has to be able to lay off the pace and longer than a half....

Cannon Shell · #10 05-23-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samarta

I don't know whether they should replace him or not...my question is more from a training perspective....you have a horse with what they are considering "high cruising speed" Does it make it harder to train it to rate? At the end of the day rating is rating isn't it? He's still has to be able to lay off the pace and longer than a half....

He has rated sucessfully before, I dont know why he couldn't now. The only thing that may work against him is if he adjusts the horses training and maybe does a little less with him figuring the horse is coming off of two really hard races in 2 weeks, Hard Spun may get a little more rank earlier in the race since he has not done as much training. I dont know the horse at all,trainingwise, just suggesting the possibility.

Cannon Shell · #11 05-23-2007, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pick4

Belmont Park is the most unique track in America. If the connections can get Edgar Prado to ride Hard Spun I think it is a no brainer. An experienced Belmont Park rider like Edgar Praso could be a substantial edge in the Belmont Stakes.

Hard to not take him if you can get him

Bobby Fischer · #12 05-23-2007, 07:37 PM

sounds like Pino is on if they go.

Will they PLEASE stop suggesting that CP WEST was a threat to win the race!

"that Zito horse was pressing..." that Zito horse had Zero chance. CP West was not a win candidate and There was 3.5 furlongs to go! Terrible nonsensical excuse.

Its not good to hear something like this from the trainer of a horse who needs a strategic adjustment to compete at the very top level.

sumitas · #13 05-23-2007, 08:46 PM

just guessing here but, ummmm, in my experience silence or no commitment in this case, means that Pino is out...

miraja2 · #14 05-23-2007, 10:17 PM

Prado isn't just a good jock for that track either, he has shown great ability in this particular race. In the last five years he has gotten to the winner's circle with Birdstone and (somehow) Sarava.
Many talented jocks have ridden terrible races in the Belmont the last few years, probably because of the number of 12f dirt races contested here is very small. Prado won't do that.

The Indomitable DrugS · #15 05-23-2007, 10:18 PM

I really don't think Hard Spun is the type of horse who will be impacted much, either positively or negatively, by any rider change.

As I'm sure CJ will be reminding us---he's been consistantly running a fast early/slow late race shape on his figures for quite a while---and unless he gets loose on an uncontested early lead and is able to relax in the process...that trend sure won't bode well for him in the Belmont Stakes.

the_fat_man · #16 05-23-2007, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I really don't think Hard Spun is the type of horse who will be impacted much, either positively or negatively, by any rider change.

As I'm sure CJ will be reminding us---he's been consistantly running a fast early/slow late race shape on his figures for quite a while---and unless he gets loose on an uncontested early lead and is able to relax in the process...that trend sure won't bode well for him in the Belmont Stakes.

That's almost right. Assuming I'm properly interpreting 'early/slow late race shape', the exception would be the Derby, where he ran a faster last than next to last split.

It's irrelevant anyway. He's not doing much in the Belmont.

King Glorious · #17 05-23-2007, 11:35 PM

Put me in the minority but I still don't think that the rider did wrong on Hard Spun in the Preakness. The horse would have had no shot if he was only a couple of lengths in front of the top two at the top of the stretch. His only shot, IMO, was to open up when he did and hope that he had put enough ground between himself and the top two. Unfortunately for them, those other two are just that much better. As Jones said, he just ran 4/5ths off of a track record. There was nothing wrong with his race, IMO. He just was third best behind two really good ones, the same place that he likely would have been had Curlin had a better trip in the Derby. I felt like that was the time for Pino to go. I felt that at that point, if he goes, he makes the riders of SS and Curlin make a decision, maybe take something out of their late punch by forcing them to move earlier. Maybe it was the wrong move but I felt that it was the only choice he had. He wasn't going to outrun them in the lane and he needed a cushion heading into the stretch.

the_fat_man · #18 05-23-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Put me in the minority but I still don't think that the rider did wrong on Hard Spun in the Preakness. The horse would have had no shot if he was only a couple of lengths in front of the top two at the top of the stretch. His only shot, IMO, was to open up when he did and hope that he had put enough ground between himself and the top two. Unfortunately for them, those other two are just that much better.

Include me in that minority.

disappearingdan_akaplaya · #19 05-24-2007, 02:50 PM

dont change the jock and dont run the horse in the belmont, time for a little R&R before the other big races this year

Buffymommy · #20 05-24-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

dont change the jock and dont run the horse in the belmont, time for a little R&R before the other big races this year

This is what they should do with Hard Spun, but I seriously doubt they are.

AND, I would like to see Edgar on Tizzy.