Capping

[jpops757]

Lot of anti Assmusen and Curlin capping. First two legs, the most common knock was lack of foundation and lightly raced. Now after two races its, hes stressed and cant hold up to the rigors of the TC . It sounds like a bunch are just saying find anything an use it against this horse. This colt is so good that he can regress and still win by open lengths

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think many people had it set in their minds that they wanted to take a negative position against Curlin after that supersonic fast debut win he had. If you look at the other 'raw' and unadjusted Beyer numbers run by horses on the same card that day......

Invasor (118)
Curlin (112)
Nobiz Like Showbiz (108)
Scat Daddy (103)
Cowtown Cat (96)

You'll see how remarkable a debut performance it was. Only Discreet Cat had done anything comparable to that, in debut, in all my time following horse racing.

Curlin was all over the racetrack that day--and really didn't seem to have everything figured out yet either.

I think there's always an assumption that horses who win like that in their debut are injury prone horses, who don't have a strong constitution and who struggle to stand up to the rigors of racing. Horses like Discreet Cat and Ghostzapper being a couple of prime examples...though both were handled with EXTREME conservatisim.

Each horse is their own entity though...and I agree with you...Curlin hasn't always got the kind of respect from the public...that a horse who is simply the most talented in his crop deserves to get.

He's only about four months removed from that big debut win---and, if he stands up and runs his race yet again....he'll be a four-time Graded Stakes winner and a duel-classic winner. Very few horses in history have achieved so much so soon in their career....but, this horse has always shown MAJOR TALENT!...and has been lucky enough to have been born into a fairly low-rated crop of 3yo males.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think many people had it set in their minds that they wanted to take a negative position against Curlin after that supersonic fast debut win he had. If you look at the other 'raw' and unadjusted Beyer numbers run by horses on the same card that day......

Invasor (118)
Curlin (112)
Nobiz Like Showbiz (108)
Scat Daddy (103)
Cowtown Cat (96)

You'll see how remarkable a debut performance it was. Only Discreet Cat had done anything comparable to that, in debut, in all my time following horse racing.

Curlin was all over the racetrack that day--and really didn't seem to have everything figured out yet either.

I think there's always an assumption that horses who win like that in their debut are injury prone horses, who don't have a strong constitution and who struggle to stand up to the rigors of racing. Horses like Discreet Cat and Ghostzapper being a couple of prime examples...though both were handled with EXTREME conservatisim.

Each horse is their own entity though...and I agree with you...Curlin hasn't always got the kind of respect from the public...that a horse who is simply the most talented in his crop deserves to get.

He's only about four months removed from that big debut win---and, if he stands up and runs his race yet again....he'll be a four-time Graded Stakes winner and a duel-classic winner. Very few horses in history have achieved so much so soon in their career....but, this horse has always shown MAJOR TALENT!...and has been lucky enough to have been born into a fairly low-rated crop of 3yo males.

I think if he was trained by someone else he'd be the most praised horse in training right now, which is silly really.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

I think if he was trained by someone else he'd be the most praised horse in training right now, which is silly really.

i think you're right about the first part, but not the second. this guy hasn't had one or two drugs charges, but 22. 22! so, no, it's not silly to feel less than excited about a horse he has.

it's a shame curlin is with him imo. had he been with a trainer who had never had a shadow of a doubt, then yeah, he'd be praised to the heavens.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

had he been with a trainer who had never had a shadow of a doubt, then yeah, he'd be praised to the heavens.

He was....Helen Pitts had him in his debut.

It's not like he's some chemically enhanced Steve Asmussen move-up.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think you're right about the first part, but not the second. this guy hasn't had one or two drugs charges, but 22. 22! so, no, it's not silly to feel less than excited about a horse he has.

it's a shame curlin is with him imo. had he been with a trainer who had never had a shadow of a doubt, then yeah, he'd be praised to the heavens.

AND WHO IS THAT?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was....Helen Pitts had him in his debut.

It's not like he's some chemically enhanced Steve Asmussen move-up.

Exactly.

[sumitas]

Randy Moss said today if he was going to bet $100 on the Belmont he would bet $100 Curlin/Hard Spun, cold exacta. Then for a tri put Rags underneath cold.

I love the cold exacta plays. And i love exactas with this format A/B,C at most. in other words, i like to limit my combos down to 1 or 2 horses per race or pass.

[jpops757]

Does anyone know what Curlin went for at the sale and was it a yearling or 2yr old? If he was a home bred, was he offered and didnt reach his min?

[jpops757]

I just looked in the form 57k at the kee sept 05 sale

[pointman]

I see Curlin as a single in this race. Not sure any three year old can beat him right now, certainly don't think these can.

[sumitas]

it's a 2 horse race, for sure. everybody else is running for 3rd.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He was....Helen Pitts had him in his debut.

It's not like he's some chemically enhanced Steve Asmussen move-up.

yeah, i feel bad for pitts. and not saying curlin is chemically enhanced, but i am saying asmussen is less than respected in his chosen field.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jpops757

AND WHO IS THAT?

who is what? trainers without shadows? no doubt plenty! not all trainers have drug positives-i'd say more don't than do.

see, this is a problem the thought that 'they all do it'. no, 'they' all don't!

Originally Posted by Danzig

who is what? trainers without shadows? no doubt plenty! not all trainers have drug positives-i'd say more don't than do.

see, this is a problem the thought that 'they all do it'. no, 'they' all don't!

the ones that are successful all do everyone one of them

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by slewpy

the ones that are successful all do everyone one of them

So EVERY trainer is either a cheater or a failure? That is a ridiculous statement, and it is also potentially insulting to at least one very valued member of this board.
You, quite frankly, have no idea what you are talking about.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think many people had it set in their minds that they wanted to take a negative position against Curlin after that supersonic fast debut win he had. If you look at the other 'raw' and unadjusted Beyer numbers run by horses on the same card that day......

Invasor (118)
Curlin (112)
Nobiz Like Showbiz (108)
Scat Daddy (103)
Cowtown Cat (96)

You'll see how remarkable a debut performance it was. Only Discreet Cat had done anything comparable to that, in debut, in all my time following horse racing.

Curlin was all over the racetrack that day--and really didn't seem to have everything figured out yet either.

I think there's always an assumption that horses who win like that in their debut are injury prone horses, who don't have a strong constitution and who struggle to stand up to the rigors of racing. Horses like Discreet Cat and Ghostzapper being a couple of prime examples...though both were handled with EXTREME conservatisim.

Each horse is their own entity though...and I agree with you...Curlin hasn't always got the kind of respect from the public...that a horse who is simply the most talented in his crop deserves to get.

He's only about four months removed from that big debut win---and, if he stands up and runs his race yet again....he'll be a four-time Graded Stakes winner and a duel-classic winner. Very few horses in history have achieved so much so soon in their career....but, this horse has always shown MAJOR TALENT!...and has been lucky enough to have been born into a fairly low-rated crop of 3yo males.

I agree, but the key word in all of this is "males." I have little doubt that he will beat all of the males in the race today.......but that doesn't mean he is going to win.
I doubted Rags before the Oaks........now I am a believer.

Originally Posted by miraja2

So EVERY trainer is either a cheater or a failure? That is a ridiculous statement, and it is also potentially insulting to at least one very valued member of this board.
You, quite frankly, have no idea what you are talking about.

you quite frankley havent been in the horse business

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by slewpy

the ones that are successful all do everyone one of them

i think you're incorrect.

you know, charlie witthingham, who has a race being run in his honor today, never had a positive. i guess he 'wasn't successful'?

Originally Posted by Danzig

i think you're incorrect.

you know, charlie witthingham, who has a race being run in his honor today, never had a positive. i guess he 'wasn't successful'?

oh yes he did, have positives as have just about any trainer you can name from the modern era, im not saying that its bad, lots of horses need help so they can run pain free.