A petition to save the people of Darfur

somerfrost · #1 06-14-2007, 02:09 PM

Over 450,000 have been slaughtered so far in this modern-day genocide by the ruthless, murderous ruler of The Sudan, the atrocities are endless...raping and torturing women and children, wiping out entire villages for "ethnic cleansing"...we can stop this with institution of a "no fly zone", we have the power but do we as a nation have the will? Leaders of both parties have voiced concern and signed this petition, Bush has taken some limited action but these people need...no deserve much more! Watch the disturbing video and sign the petition...please!
http://www.lifenets.net/nofly/noflyA.php

kenny p · #2 06-14-2007, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Over 450,000 have been slaughtered so far in this modern-day genocide by the ruthless, murderous ruler of The Sudan, the atrocities are endless...raping and torturing women and children, wiping out entire villages for "ethnic cleansing"...we can stop this with institution of a "no fly zone", we have the power but do we as a nation have the will? Leaders of both parties have voiced concern and signed this petition, Bush has taken some limited action but these people need...no deserve much more! Watch the disturbing video and sign the petition...please!
http://www.lifenets.net/nofly/noflyA.php

I have been aware of Darfur for years. Unfortunately the world doesnt care about these people and I dont think it ever will. The average American could care less. Sad but true. The Sudanese have been slavers for centuries and they are not going to change. Also its obvious the Europeans dont care either. What a shame. KP

somerfrost · #3 06-14-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny p

I have been aware of Darfur for years. Unfortunately the world doesnt care about these people and I dont think it ever will. The average American could care less. Sad but true. The Sudanese have been slavers for centuries and they are not going to change. Also its obvious the Europeans dont care either. What a shame. KP

The only thing that can change things is public outcry and it has been swelling! It didn't take us long to protect the white folks in Bosnia (we did absolutely the right thing) but when it comes to the Sudan...

skippy3481 · #4 06-14-2007, 05:04 PM

Darfur is a very sad situation. I signed the petition but I'm sorry to say that a squadron of fighter jets is not going to make that much of a diffrence.

somerfrost · #5 06-14-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Darfur is a very sad situation. I signed the petition but I'm sorry to say that a squadron of fighter jets is not going to make that much of a diffrence.

If we could keep those killer choppers out then maybe the UN would actually be willing to send a peace force in...afterall, the Sudanese ground forces are guys on horseback!

the_fat_man · #6 06-14-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenny p

I have been aware of Darfur for years. Unfortunately the world doesnt care about these people and I dont think it ever will. The average American could care less. Sad but true. The Sudanese have been slavers for centuries and they are not going to change. Also its obvious the Europeans dont care either. What a shame. KP

While the situation there is TRAGIC, I think Africa should govern itself. The continent was victimized for too long by European Imperialism. And public outcry was certainly correct in demanding that the Europeans get out.
Evidence, the present case and others throughout Africa, suggests that the Africans are quite capable of their own atrocities. Are we suggesting that Africa needs help from the Europeans (or America)?

Can't be true: they're doing just fine, killing each other off, on their own.

A model that should really be used in the case of the Middle East, as well. No need to intrude; they're perfectly capable of killing each other.

somerfrost · #7 06-14-2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

While the situation there is TRAGIC, I think Africa should govern itself. The continent was victimized for too long by European Imperialism. And public outcry was certainly correct in demanding that the Europeans get out.
Evidence, the present case and others throughout Africa, suggests that the Africans are quite capable of their own atrocities. Are we suggesting that Africa needs help from the Europeans (or America)?

Can't be true: they're doing just fine, killing each other off, on their own.

A model that should really be used in the case of the Middle East, as well. No need to intrude; they're perfectly capable of killing each other.

I feel your cynic view shows a lack of humanity, of course we should stop this crime...we have the ability and to sit and do nothing is a crime in itself, makes those "never again" promises rather hollow-sounding! There is a huge difference between exploiting people and their land for our own self-interests and allowing slaughter by a criminal despot...don't think Saddam ever did anything to this magnitude!

Danzig · #8 06-15-2007, 04:32 AM

many nations said 'never again' after realizing the magnitude of the holocaust. easier said than done...what they meant i suppose was never again to a group we care about.

it's funny tho, we always want to step in, always want to help, but as soon as we do so, anywhere, then there are those saying we aren't the worlds police, we should mind our business, it's not worth american lives, etc. dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

timmgirvan · #9 06-15-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

many nations said 'never again' after realizing the magnitude of the holocaust. easier said than done...what they meant i suppose was never again to a group we care about.

it's funny tho, we always want to step in, always want to help, but as soon as we do so, anywhere, then there are those saying we aren't the worlds police, we should mind our business, it's not worth american lives, etc. dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

Agreed! Thanks for pointing this out!

Downthestretch55 · #10 06-15-2007, 04:43 PM

"it's not worth american lives, etc. dammed if we do, dammed if we don't."

It's not worth ANY lives.
That said (and I don't have a link to post, so find your own), did you know about the oil reserves that are in Darfur, and which country (in Asia) has dibs on them?

timmgirvan · #11 06-15-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

"it's not worth american lives, etc. dammed if we do, dammed if we don't."

It's not worth ANY lives.
That said (and I don't have a link to post, so find your own), did you know about the oil reserves that are in Darfur, and which country (in Asia) has dibs on them?

I believe Danzig meant(as i do)that no matter what the US does we are castigated by the spineless nations of the U.N. I feel the tradegy in Darfur is inexcusable, but as we've had to leave it to the Govt. the people suffer. Who is behind Door #3?

#12 06-15-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

"it's not worth american lives, etc. dammed if we do, dammed if we don't."

It's not worth ANY lives.
That said (and I don't have a link to post, so find your own), did you know about the oil reserves that are in Darfur, and which country (in Asia) has dibs on them?

China could stop this very easily.

And I agree with Z. We cant win. Do people remember Somalia? We had no interest in that country whatsoever and sent kids in and they got slaughtered. This is a very confusing issue for me, very. It is clearly genocide of black Africans by religious zealots with money at stake. A very volatile combination. This is clearly a horrific slaughter. But... we have made it very clear we will not tolerate the loss of American lives unless... and then it gets to a very fuzzy border that I cannot comprehend anymore.

Downthestretch55 · #13 06-15-2007, 05:12 PM

Timm and Pgardn,
I'm not arguing with either of you. You are both correct. So are Somerfrost and Danzig.
Pgardn said it well, "This is clearly a horrific slaughter."
Just my "take", but I think the UN will be equally as ineffective in dealing with this as they have been with so many previous genocides.
Sorry...Huttu's and Tutsies come to mind, or how the UN was so "key" in Cambodia (right?). The US will twiddle their thumbs for a while, maybe make a request of China to intervene. Americans will sign petitions.
And the people of Darfur will continue to DIE!

Ahhh! Feeling so impotent lately regarding the confrontations of tragedies.

DTS

timmgirvan · #14 06-15-2007, 05:31 PM

With the current 'contentious' situation in Washington, it is hardly suprizing that the US is twiddling it's thumbs. I'd be glad to see the Congress come up with a plan,but they'll never let Bush act,because it would take away from steamrollin him for all things evil!

Downthestretch55 · #15 06-15-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

With the current 'contentious' situation in Washington, it is hardly suprizing that the US is twiddling it's thumbs. I'd be glad to see the Congress come up with a plan,but they'll never let Bush act,because it would take away from steamrollin him for all things evil!

timm,
I will not bash Bush.
I will not bash Bush.
I will not bash Bush.

(100X)

Do you really think there remains any credibility with the UN, especially with regards to Powell's comments on UN 1440?
Perhaps as much as the complicit Congress that has yet to act on the mandate that gave them control.
Plan??? ROTFLMAO!!!!
Which one? Surge? Illegal immigration? No Child Left Behind? Military Commissions? FISA? DoJ? need more?
Ain't NO evil!!!
Shultz (Hogan's Heros), "I see nothing."

timmgirvan · #16 06-15-2007, 05:57 PM

The UN hasn't had strength or honor or power for a very long time. I'm saying that if Mighty Congress has any ideas ....now would be a good time to do something about Darfur. The Presidents' failures have been catalogued previously.

Downthestretch55 · #17 06-15-2007, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The UN hasn't had strength or honor or power for a very long time. I'm saying that if Mighty Congress has any ideas ....now would be a good time to do something about Darfur. The Presidents' failures have been catalogued previously.

I don't expect much from the current "Mighty Congress", especially regarding Darfur.
I will not bring up the President's failures. That seems to be what the Dems are waiting for the voters to see before the Nov 08 elections.
The shame of it all is that so many people will die in the meanwhile.
The Repubs will run on "illegal immigrants" and "creationism".
The Dems will run on "anti-repub issues".
Corporate PAC's with hedge their bets soas to win either way.
Darfur? Honestly, how many votes is that one gonna getcha?
Shame and sad...but that's the way it is.
Good night and good luck!

timmgirvan · #18 06-15-2007, 06:24 PM

I know..it sucks!

Downthestretch55 · #19 06-21-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I know..it sucks!

Timm,
Here's Desmond Tutu putting pressure on the EU. His words make sense, but time is of the essence.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0621/p09s01-coop.htm

timmgirvan · #20 06-21-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Timm,
Here's Desmond Tutu putting pressure on the EU. His words make sense, but time is of the essence.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0621/p09s01-coop.htm

DTS: Tutus' words are all well and good,but I fail to see what sanctions could be imposed that wouldn't increase an already impotent, failed diplomatic accord! What would China benefit from involvement in this situation? Forgive me, I'm not currently on top of this situation. Again,as Tutu pointed out, the UN has been ineffective in their efforts to date.