Arkansas Derby Grade???

What exactly is it going to take to get this race Grade I status?
Im not exactly sure of the procedure but the money and the horses that have run in it the past few years certainly seem to make it a Grade I race.

So if the race is not held in NY, California, Kentucky, or Florida it cant be Grade I... ? I dont get it.

[miraja2]

It was a G1 from 1981 through 1988.
Personally, I think the problem right now is not that there are too few G1s, but that there are too many.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by miraja2

It was a G1 from 1981 through 1988.
Personally, I think the problem right now is not that there are too few G1s, but that there are too many.

That might be the case, but if there was ever a race that deserved a Grade I it is definitely this one. It has been a much better race than the Blue Grass over the last ten years, yet still hasn't been upgraded. I figured the Smarty Jones-Afleet Alex-Lawyer Ron succession would be enough to get a "bump" but it hasn't happened. Only legitimate knock on the race is that it often has one solid horse with a lackluster field behind it, but I find it hard to believe that year in, year out it is inferior to the Blue Grass or Wood Memorial. The Lane's End at Turfway is a Grade II for crying out loud.

NT

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

That might be the case, but if there was ever a race that deserved a Grade I it is definitely this one. It has been a much better race than the Blue Grass over the last ten years, yet still hasn't been upgraded. I figured the Smarty Jones-Afleet Alex-Lawyer Ron succession would be enough to get a "bump" but it hasn't happened. Only legitimate knock on the race is that it often has one solid horse with a lackluster field behind it, but I find it hard to believe that year in, year out it is inferior to the Blue Grass or Wood Memorial. The Lane's End at Turfway is a Grade II for crying out loud.

NT

I agree with you that the Arkansas should be on the same level as the Wood, Bluegrass, and Santa Anita Derby but if they made me tzar of racing (which should happen any day now) my solution would be to downgrade those other races to G2 status (along with a bunch of others) rather than to upgrade the Arkansas Derby.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I agree with you that the Arkansas should be on the same level as the Wood, Bluegrass, and Santa Anita Derby but if they made me tzar of racing (which should happen any day now) my solution would be to downgrade those other races to G2 status (along with a bunch of others) rather than to upgrade the Arkansas Derby.

I agree with that...Dave Litfin wrote a column a long time ago about how he gets annoyed with 3YO Derby preps being Grade Is. I really think his point was excellent, that it would make great sense to make them all Grade IIs (those being the big ones of course). It would also go a long way towards uniformity.

NT

[Danzig]

i'd rather see the ark derby upgraded, than to see some races with real historical value be downgraded. the bluegrass stakes may have lost a step, BUT, the grading has to do with more than having a contribution to the tc races. it's all other racing all year. and of course, many horses who didn't do so well, or placed in the classics, go on to win meaningful races later on..bluegrass cat for example, finished fourth in the bluegrass stakes, who placed in the derby and preakness, and then had further success in the fall, winning the haskell and then placing to bernardini in the travers stakes before retiring....strong contender also ran in that race, later returning to beat lawyer ron in the super derby.

i do think that there are too many graded races...i can see an argument being made that many gr 1's should be a 2, and only those true top races keep the top status. regardless, the ark derby should be on a level with the fla derby, the wood memorial, etc.

[Travis Stone]

I have actually sat down and tried to come up with ways to "post grade" races. I think that would be really neat.

[Cannon Shell]

Why does, with the exception of the winner of the race, anyone care what it's grade is?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

get a turf track then we can talk..........

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why does, with the exception of the winner of the race, anyone care what it's grade is?

Lets go one step further then.

Why do the even grade races in the first place? Apparently the breeders crow about it a great deal.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lets go one step further then.

Why do the even grade races in the first place? Apparently the breeders crow about it a great deal.

Unless you are a breeder why do you care about what breeders crow about?

[whodey17]

The only purpose of graded races is for the Breeders. Who cares if the Arkansas Derby is a Grade I or II or III. I personally think there should be only 4 Grade I races for each age and for each surface and for varied distances. I would do away with Grade II's and Grade III's.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by whodey17

The only purpose of graded races is for the Breeders. Who cares if the Arkansas Derby is a Grade I or II or III. I personally think there should be only 4 Grade I races for each age and for each surface and for varied distances. I would do away with Grade II's and Grade III's.

seems to matter to many.

it's not that the ark derby should be a 1, but i think it should be on level with the other big preps. if it's a 2, they should be as well.

really tho, since there are too many, it's diluted anyway. if they're all special, than really none of them are. is it a self-esteem thing??

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by Danzig

seems to matter to many.

it's not that the ark derby should be a 1, but i think it should be on level with the other big preps. if it's a 2, they should be as well.

really tho, since there are too many, it's diluted anyway. if they're all special, than really none of them are. is it a self-esteem thing??

I could care less who won a Grade I or II or III. I think most people could care less (just my opinion). But I agree that it is diluted.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Unless you are a breeder why do you care about what breeders crow about?

Ya gotta answer my first question first. Why are races graded? Just for breeders?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Ya gotta answer my first question first. Why are races graded? Just for breeders?

That was the original intent.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That was the original intent.

I care because a grade I count more points in The Road To The Roses Contest which I fail miserably at every year. So maybe making the Arkansas Derby a grade I will shake things up a bit.

So could you talk to somebody and explain my dire situation...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I care because a grade I count more points in The Road To The Roses Contest which I fail miserably at every year. So maybe making the Arkansas Derby a grade I will shake things up a bit.

So could you talk to somebody and explain my dire situation...

The way the graded stakes committee works we should lobby them to drop it a grade and it's a sure Grade 1 next year

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The way the graded stakes committee works we should lobby them to drop it a grade and it's a sure Grade 1 next year

I'll take that to mean we are not in tight with the powers that be.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I'll take that to mean we are not in tight with the powers that be.

We are in tight enough but they have some obsure system that they use. Common sense is not part of the formula