Presque Isle Downs - Nice Purses

[theiman]

In terms of money, it will be Del Mar, Keeneland, and Saratoga in northwestern Pennsylvania when Presque Isle Downs offers an inaugural 25-night meet with an average of $500,000 per program in purses.

Management and horsemen are putting the finishing touches on the condition book and stakes schedule for the meet, which runs from Sept. 1-Sept. 29 near Erie. It’s projected that about $13 million--most of it revenue from slot machines that began operating earlier this year--will have to be paid out during the first live meet at Presque Isle by law.

The condition book will reflect base purses, but in reality the payouts will be 75% higher under a scheme devised by track owner MTR Gaming Group and the Pennsylvania Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association. First place will earn 75% of the advertised purse, followed by second place at 45%, third place at 20%, four place at 15%, fifth place at 10%, sixth place at 5%, seventh place at 3%, and eighth place at 2%.

Thus, the lowest purse--$14,000 for $10,000 maiden claimers and $5,000 claimers that haven’t won in six months--is actually worth $24,500. A $40,000 maiden special weight event is worth $70,000. The highest overnight purse--$50,000 for an open allowance race--will be $87,500 under the supplement plan.

The stakes schedule, at about $1.7 million, includes the $400,000 Presque Isle Downs Master Stakes for fillies and mares at six furlongs Sept. 15. Officials said they hope the stakes serves as a potential prep for the new $1-million Breeders’ Cup Filly and Mare Sprint in late October.

The Sept. 15 card will include the $175,000 Presque Isle Mile for 3-year-olds and up at one mile, and the $175,000 Karl Boyes Memorial Northwestern Pa. Stakes for 3-year-olds and up at 5 1/2 furlongs.

Presque Isle, where the racetrack is one mile in circumference, will be the first to use a Tapeta Footings surface for racing. The synthetic Tapeta surface developed by trainer Michael Dickinson also is being installed at Golden Gate Fields in Northern California.

“This has really been a joint effort with the horsemen,” said Rose Mary Williams, director of racing at Mountaineer Race Track & Gaming Resort, which also is owned by MTR Gaming. “We’ve worked together well to make it a really good meet, and the synthetic surface will be a plus.”

Pennsylvania HBPA president Joe Santanna noted the purses for the first Presque Isle meet will be the highest in Pennsylvania racing history. “When I looked over the first condition book, I said, ‘This can’t be a racetrack in Pennsylvania,’ ” Santanna said.

The Erie area has been without live Thoroughbred since 1987, when Erie Downs held its last meet. The track, previously called Commodore Downs, which opened in 1973, catered to lower-level claiming horses.

For its final meet 20 years ago, Erie Downs offered 79 days of racing with an average purse of $1,500, according to the Racing Manual. The fifth-place finisher in a $5,000 claiming race will earn that much this year at Presque Isle.

Santanna said if gaming projections hold, Presque Isle should be able to offer about $300,000 a night over 100 programs in 2008. So the published purses in this year’s condition book reflect what purses should look like next year.

Presque Isle has received about 45 stall applications thus far, but that could change when the condition book is officially released. “I think you’ll find they’ll be coming in from all over the country,” Williams said.

Presque Isle will offer eight races per program on a Wednesday-through-Monday schedule. On Sept. 21, Pennsylvania breeders will have their night at the races with six $90,000 stakes for state-breds.


http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=39801

check out the condition book at
http://www.presqueisledowns.com/raci...itionbook1.pdf

[Bigsmc]

I'm sure Cannon will take a long look at that book.

Sumwonlovespresqueisle's purses.

[Scav]

I think he said that he was racing there, but it could have been sarcasism or misread

[SentToStud]

2000 slot machines and 200 horseplayers with lousy horses and lousier trainers getting paid big. It's the Apocolypse.

[ARyan]

I am looking forward to some of the horses I own part of running there! I don't think the trainer that trains the horses I am a part of is lousy at all StoS, but thanks for the input.

That money is crazy though!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ARyan

I am looking forward to some of the horses I own part of running there! I don't think the trainer that trains the horses I am a part of is lousy at all StoS, but thanks for the input.

That money is crazy though!

You're welcome. No offense meant. If I had horses, I'd run them there. But it's a lousy model for any business.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

But it's a lousy model for any business.

Why do you think that?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Riot

Why do you think that?

I don't think that any business that cannot support itself is a good model. Other people may believe that slot revenue is a part of horse racing. I don't. I think it props up second and third tier racetracks that would not exist otherwise. I would expect horse owners and trainers to say it's all good but I just think there are too many bad racetracks running too many bad horses. Slot machines have proven not to bring new horse race wagerers. In fact, they cannibalize handle. I'm not a fan.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I think he said that he was racing there, but it could have been sarcasism or misread

If they have money I will go.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

I don't think that any business that cannot support itself is a good model. Other people may believe that slot revenue is a part of horse racing. I don't. I think it props up second and third tier racetracks that would not exist otherwise. I would expect horse owners and trainers to say it's all good but I just think there are too many bad racetracks running too many bad horses. Slot machines have proven not to bring new horse race wagerers. In fact, they cannibalize handle. I'm not a fan.

So it would be better if there was just a casino and the money that goes to purses could just go to the politicians pet pork projects?

[mes5107]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So it would be better if there was just a casino and the money that goes to purses could just go to the politicians pet pork projects?

I don't think he said that. I think StS is saying that supplementing purses with slot machine revenue is not a long term solution to draw in new horse racing fans.

Perhaps lowering takeout is more of a solution.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So it would be better if there was just a casino and the money that goes to purses could just go to the politicians pet pork projects?

If there were "just" casinos, there would be no Presque. There would also be no new racetracks in New Mexico and no new harness tracks in Ontario. It's a joke what the purses are at these places compared to handle. Other than supporting bad horse racing, what single good thing does racing there or at the other slots tracks do for the sport or the bettors? Did racing improve at Woodbine? At Mountaineer? At Gulf? No. Did takeout go down at any of those racetracks? No. It does zero for the bettors, who are the reason why racetracks exist. If you want to cast stones at people who benefit from what I think is a bad concept, don't leave out the horsemen. They are certainly also responsible for creating these artificially high purses for what I consider bad horse racing. As to your question, my answer is I disagree with your premise that these slot macine places would exist without the approval of horsemen. They wouldn't. They shouldn't exist, period. That said, if you are in the business, you can only take what they give you and I certainly have no problem with people getting paid as much as they can. I just think they're bad for racing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

If there were "just" casinos, there would be no Presque. There would also be no new racetracks in New Mexico and no new harness tracks in Ontario. It's a joke what the purses are at these places compared to handle. Other than supporting bad horse racing, what single good thing does racing there or at the other slots tracks do for the sport or the bettors? Did racing improve at Woodbine? At Mountaineer? At Gulf? No. Did takeout go down at any of those racetracks? No. It does zero for the bettors, who are the reason why racetracks exist. If you want to cast stones at people who benefit from what I think is a bad concept, don't leave out the horsemen. They are certainly also responsible for creating these artificially high purses for what I consider bad horse racing. As to your question, my answer is I disagree with your premise that these slot macine places would exist without the approval of horsemen. They wouldn't. They shouldn't exist, period. That said, if you are in the business, you can only take what they give you and I certainly have no problem with people getting paid as much as they can. I just think they're bad for racing.

You dont think that racing has improved at Mountaineer or Woodbine? You think it is better for competition to come in and get favorable treatment and just let the tracks die because they cant compete without it? I agree that the tracks are not thinking forwardly in terms of doing more for the paying/betting customer. I campaign on a regular basis to track management thoughout the country for this. But a lot of that has to do with state mandated regulation where the state actually controls the pricing (ie.takeout)in an industry. What other industry has to to overcome a regulator that is also a competitor? (Lottery, etc) To say that all slots are doing is proping up an industry is words. I prefer allowing an industry to compete on a more level playingfield with other gambling competitors. It would be like McDonalds not being allowed to sell salads and chicken sandwichs because it started off as a hamburger joint. By allowing the tracks to expand their gambling menus you are benefiting the tracks, the racing industry and all associated businesses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by mes5107

I don't think he said that. I think StS is saying that supplementing purses with slot machine revenue is not a long term solution to draw in new horse racing fans.

Perhaps lowering takeout is more of a solution.

Why would wouldn't this just be considered another revenue stream as opposed to a marketing platform? If you make horseownership more affordable you will attract more new owners who will help grow the game from within.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why would wouldn't this just be considered another revenue stream as opposed to a marketing platform? If you make horseownership more affordable you will attract more new owners who will help grow the game from within.

Great point!

[Left Bank]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So it would be better if there was just a casino and the money that goes to purses could just go to the politicians pet pork projects?

It will soon anyway.They always change their minds{Politicians}and when the money gets big,and their budgets are coming up in the red,they will come for your slots money.What they give,they will also take away.

[mes5107]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why would wouldn't this just be considered another revenue stream as opposed to a marketing platform? If you make horseownership more affordable you will attract more new owners who will help grow the game from within.

Yes, it certainly is a new revenue stream for horseowners, and as purses go up, it does open the game up to lower income fans who would like to become owners. That is a good thing.

However, I think that most aspiring/current owners are/were horseplayers first. I'm a DeeTee stables member, and most of my non-horseplaying fans think that it is very cool that I'm a part of it. With that said, none of them ever take me up on the offer to come down to the simulcast to watch SWLY run (only 15 min away). It is hard to try to grow the industry from within, though I will still try.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kimmeastar

It will soon anyway.They always change their minds{Politicians}and when the money gets big,and their budgets are coming up in the red,they will come for your slots money.What they give,they will also take away.

Unfortunate but true

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by mes5107

Yes, it certainly is a new revenue stream for horseowners, and as purses go up, it does open the game up to lower income fans who would like to become owners. That is a good thing.

However, I think that most aspiring/current owners are/were horseplayers first. I'm a DeeTee stables member, and most of my non-horseplaying fans think that it is very cool that I'm a part of it. With that said, none of them ever take me up on the offer to come down to the simulcast to watch SWLY run (only 15 min away). It is hard to try to grow the industry from within, though I will still try.

Lure them with place bets...

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You dont think that racing has improved at Mountaineer or Woodbine? You think it is better for competition to come in and get favorable treatment and just let the tracks die because they cant compete without it? I agree that the tracks are not thinking forwardly in terms of doing more for the paying/betting customer. I campaign on a regular basis to track management thoughout the country for this. But a lot of that has to do with state mandated regulation where the state actually controls the pricing (ie.takeout)in an industry. What other industry has to to overcome a regulator that is also a competitor? (Lottery, etc) To say that all slots are doing is proping up an industry is words. I prefer allowing an industry to compete on a more level playingfield with other gambling competitors. It would be like McDonalds not being allowed to sell salads and chicken sandwichs because it started off as a hamburger joint. By allowing the tracks to expand their gambling menus you are benefiting the tracks, the racing industry and all associated businesses.

I don't think racing has improved at slots tracks. You may get a horse or two for upper class races you wouldn't have got but no overall. And when a Thursday Philly Park race with an overinflated purse draws one or two runners out of NY, what good does that do? None, really. The Phil Park pools are too small and the takeout too usurious to wager seriously into so all you get in the end iis a watered down NY race.

I don't think slot machines compete for horse players. I doubt you can go to a slot room at a racino and see three people with a racing form. I do not believe they are the same people, no.

Should some tracks die because they cannot compete? Absolutely. I don't see anything wrong with people, businesses or industries who cannot compete failing. The favorable treatment you speak of I don't understand. It's not right to say that in one sentence without following it in the next by saying that the slot tracks are created, at least in great part, by the horse racing industry itself.

Your on your own with the McDonalds analogy. I don't get it. That's like saying US Steel should have gotten saved in the end despite the fact the economy changed and they couldn't compete. Who should have paid? Microsoft?

I'm not a takeout/regulations expert, so I concede there. But how can Ellis do what they did? It's possible, apparently.

It's not as if every single track that is succesful has slots. Tampa, Oaklawn, Arlington, Santa Anita, Keeneland all had or are having good meets this year. It's possible, apparently.

I understand that a new race track with high purses is a good thing for people who earn their money racing and like I said, people should certainly earn whatever they can.

If you try to explain to a non-racing fan what Presque is and why the purses there are as high as DelMAr and Saratoga but pools are going to be so low that a $100 wager will bang it up so much that you cannot bet the track, you'll get a confused response.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think tracks should exist if wagering does not support them.