Overrated Jockeys

Let me start by saying that I'm not trying to bash anyone here, just curious as to what people think. I've read a lot of posts about how bad Garrett Gomez is, and I don't know, I just don't agree. He finishes strong, and he has great hands. I will agree that his judgement isn't always the best, but who's is. In my opinion there are far more overrated guys out there. Rafael Bejarano is the first that comes to mind. The reason I say this, is because he was being groomed as the next pat Day, and I'm sorry I don't see it. He is consistently outridden by Julian Leparoux, and I think his decision making most of the time is okay at best. I know he wins a ton of races, but most of the time it's because he's on the best horse, and I just think the guy is overhyped. Another is Ramon Dominguez, who also wins a ton, but again he is usually on the best. Now he did have a decent Saratoga meeting last year, but my problem with Dominguez is I think he tries to get cute too much, and tries to look good instead of getting the job done. In no way am I saying that he isn't trying to win, I just think if he were a bit more focused he could dominate. Both riders are very talented, don't get me wrong, but before we crown these guys as the next Bailey, or whoever lets look at the veterans right now.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Let me start by saying that I'm not trying to bash anyone here, just curious as to what people think. I've read a lot of posts about how bad Garrett Gomez is, and I don't know, I just don't agree. He finishes strong, and he has great hands. I will agree that his judgement isn't always the best, but who's is. In my opinion there are far more overrated guys out there. Rafael Bejarano is the first that comes to mind. The reason I say this, is because he was being groomed as the next pat Day, and I'm sorry I don't see it. He is consistently outridden by Julian Leparoux, and I think his decision making most of the time is okay at best. I know he wins a ton of races, but most of the time it's because he's on the best horse, and I just think the guy is overhyped. Another is Ramon Dominguez, who also wins a ton, but again he is usually on the best. Now he did have a decent Saratoga meeting last year, but my problem with Dominguez is I think he tries to get cute too much, and tries to look good instead of getting the job done. In no way am I saying that he isn't trying to win, I just think if he were a bit more focused he could dominate. Both riders are very talented, don't get me wrong, but before we crown these guys as the next Bailey, or whoever lets look at the veterans right now.

I think Gomez is great. Last year, I thought he was the best rider by far. This year, he hasn't been quite as consistent but I would still take him over anyone. I agree with you about Dominguez. I think he is very overrated.

[Scav]

The french man has really impressed me lately with some of his rides...He is one kid that isn't afraid to shoot holes and make his own room in a legal fashion. I remember when he got tossed over the rail at Keeneland, only to get up the next race...Albarado would have taken a week off

Albarado is overrated.

I get SOLID rides from Raffie, Migs, Guidry, Nakatani, Emigh, Bridgo, Martin Jr(not today but in general) and Mena...

[blackthroatedwind]

Overrated riders? I think that's redundant.

It's the same answer as the corny joke my father used to ask me every time we drove by a cemetary when I was a kid. " How many people are dead in that cemetary? "


All of them.

[blackthroatedwind]

But, by the way, there is probably no more overrated rider in history than Bejarano.

[Scav]

disagree deepthroatgas....

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

disagree deepthroatgas....

Before I never waste my time answering you again I just want to check...are you making some sort of bad joke involving my screen name?

[Scav]

playing around yo.....I don't think you should disrepect jocks like that because what they do is extremely dangerous. While I have hatred towards some jocks, I still respect what they do. You stated that they are all overrated is a lack of respect for them, IMO...

[blackthroatedwind]

Who ever said I don't respect what they do? In fact, one of the people on your list of riders you like is one of my close friends. However, I believe that jockeys as a group are extremely overrated. They get way to much credit when they win and way too much blame when they lose. Their job is to not screw it up when they are supposed to win. A jockey is not measured by the handful of races he ( or she ) might win in a year due to extraspecial guile but are, in fact, measured by the number of races they screw up where they should have won. The lower the latter number the better the rider.

I honestly doubt Jerry Bailey would disagree with the previous paragraph and he was the best, and smartest, rider I have ever seen.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Gomez' awful ride on TM BLING stands out like a retarded kid at a Spelling Bee.Anytime somebody thinks Gomez is a great rider,go to the Belmont web site.Click video,and find the race on the undercard of the Belmont this year.You can not be dumber than that.Sometimes the guy is smart as a potted plant.Sure ,he gives some good rides,but he ain't gunna make it up to ya when he blows a chalk ride.Oh yes,he will blow some more rides on chalk.Why? Because when he is a target,he is easy to get into trouble.Not in the top 50% of the smartest guys out there.Prado simply makes an a$$ out of him,and that will probably continue to be the case.When he costs you a bunch of dough you'll see.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who ever said I don't respect what they do? In fact, one of the people on your list of riders you like is one of my close friends. However, I believe that jockeys as a group are extremely overrated. They get way to much credit when they win and way too much blame when they lose. Their job is to not screw it up when they are supposed to win. A jockey is not measured by the handful of races he ( or she ) might win in a year due to extraspecial guile but are, in fact, measured by the number of races they screw up where they should have won. The lower the latter number the better the rider.

I honestly doubt Jerry Bailey would disagree with the previous paragraph and he was the best, and smartest, rider I have ever seen.

When said this way, I can respect your opinion. I do disagree with you though. The key to the statement is "smartest" because it takes a brain to ride.

This being said, Bailey, or any of the jocks I mentioned above aren't getting mounts because they are nice to the trainers or giving out reacharounds, they are getting mounts because of their skill and instincts.

The riders I mentioned, I know that 9 times out of 10 I will get a good ride out of them, that is all I can ask for.

[Scav]

Close to putting Jara on this list also because his recent rides have just been awesome. Better stock comes more wins, and he will be rollin in his Benz soon enough.

Originally Posted by Scav

The french man has really impressed me lately with some of his rides...He is one kid that isn't afraid to shoot holes and make his own room in a legal fashion. I remember when he got tossed over the rail at Keeneland, only to get up the next race...Albarado would have taken a week off

Albarado is overrated.

I get SOLID rides from Raffie, Migs, Guidry, Nakatani, Emigh, Bridgo, Martin Jr(not today but in general) and Mena...

I couldn't agree more with Albarado, now he GETS horses beat. I'll agree with Guidry, Bridgmohan, Nakatani, Emigh (who I think is very underrated), but I can't stand the Mig. I just think he is spotty. like today he looked great but, a lot of the times he is average. For my money Javier Castallano is great. In my opinion the best turf rider out there, and I know I may be stretching a bit, but he consistently finishes, and is usually a fair price. Aside from the obvious Johnny V., Prado and Solis I think Castellano is the new wave of star jocks, along with my favorite frenchman Laparoux.

[blackthroatedwind]

Well, the question was " overrated jockeys ". I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is overrating the importance of riders.

Honestly, more than half the time I have no idea who is riding a horse I bet on, and have to check my paper as the horses are going into the gate ( you know, so I know what name to scream in vain after I inevitably lose ). The only riders I will not bet in NY, unless the horses are huge prices in which case I will even bet that recent absurd addition the the NY jockey colony Joel Cruz, are Diane Nelson and her male counterpart Herb Castillo.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Overrated riders? I think that's redundant.

It's the same answer as the corny joke my father used to ask me every time we drove by a cemetary when I was a kid. " How many people are dead in that cemetary? "


All of them.

I agree...on most occasions the horses dictate the outcome of the race, not the riders...There are a few races out there were riders visually make a difference but it is a minor percentage IMO...If one horse is typically three lengths faster than another horse and they race together and the faster horse has Tammy Fox on him and the slower horse has Angel Cordero - I'll still bet on the faster horse everytime...

Jockeys have a tough job, don't get me wrong....they have to be in immacualte physicval condition and they lay their bodies on the line everytime they exit the paddock on to the race track, but our sport's real superstars are the horses and not the jockeys....

Now, I do think a rider can ruin the outcome of a race, obviously, and it happens WAY more than they actually positively assist the outcome of the race...This is just reality and not me on a jockey-hating tirade...I actually respect jockeys a lot, but I am alos an owner and I see who pays for everything in this sport and who makes the money in this sport, which is no secret....

It's funny because I actually disagree with the original poster a little bit...I believe that Rafael Bejarano is the most talented and best rider in the game...Leparoux is a very solid up-and-comer but I like Rafael's athleticism more, and he is not scared to try on cheap horses, which many prima donas out there won't do....I believe Ramon Dominguez is the most UNDERrated rider in the country if that helps your original question, but they all probably get too much credit for their actions when one of their horses win IMO - but that is how the racing world is set up...the media can't interview the horse so the next logical figure they can latch onto as a 'star' is the jockey because they are interviewable (well some of them are)..LOL

[Scav]

off topic here but Mig doesn't lose on Allen Jerken's runners, think he is a little less then 50% on his mounts, was 4 for 10 and now 5 for 11 today....

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Gomez' awful ride on TM BLING stands out like a retarded kid at a Spelling Bee.Anytime somebody thinks Gomez is a great rider,go to the Belmont web site.Click video,and find the race on the undercard of the Belmont this year.You can not be dumber than that.Sometimes the guy is smart as a potted plant.Sure ,he gives some good rides,but he ain't gunna make it up to ya when he blows a chalk ride.Oh yes,he will blow some more rides on chalk.Why? Because when he is a target,he is easy to get into trouble.Not in the top 50% of the smartest guys out there.Prado simply makes an a$$ out of him,and that will probably continue to be the case.When he costs you a bunch of dough you'll see.

I've watched the replay a few times, and I just disagree. What would you have liked Gomez to do? Harry Vega's horse outsprinted him, and he sat patiently there. As they turned for home, the hole opened, then it shut, and finally opened again. First off, Songster is very talented and no one was going to beat him that day. I think it was more of Harry Vega not letting Gomez through, as he was trying to salvage second, then anything Gomez did wrong. Did you read Baffert's post race comments, he said something to the extent of Vega costing TMB the race and him having some connection to Prado.

[blackthroatedwind]

Basically, bettors use jockeys in a transparant attempt to veil their handicapping inadequacies. They blame them for losses when in fact it was more than likely a mediocre handicapping job ( hey, even good horseplayers don't handicap all the races well ). The truth is it is rare that you are absolutely cost money by a poor ride. And, more importantly, nobody ever seems to notice those few times when you cash simply because another rider buried his mount. I guarantee this happens MUCH more than you are cost a win by a poor ride. It's simply numbers.

But, also, people spend way too much time worrying about riders when attempting to handicap. It is a distraction and a complete waste of time and energy. Handicap the horses and hope for the best.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Scav

off topic here but Mig doesn't lose on Allen Jerken's runners, think he is a little less then 50% on his mounts, was 4 for 10 and now 5 for 11 today....

I would say it is a mutual admiration society.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I agree...on most occasions the horses dictate the outcome of the race, not the riders...There are a few races out there were riders visually make a difference but it is a minor percentage IMO...If one horse is typically three lengths faster than another horse and they race together and the faster horse has Tammy Fox on him and the slower horse has Angel Cordero - I'll still bet on the faster horse everytime...I think Ramon Dominguez is the most underrated rider in the country if that gives you a better answer to your original question.

Jockeys have a tough job, don't get me wrong....they have to be in immacualte physicval condition and they lay their bodies on the line everytime they exit the paddock on to the race track, but our sport's real superstars are the horses and not the jockeys....

Now, I do think a rider can ruin the outcome of a race, obviously, and it happens WAY more than they actually positively assist the outcome of the race...This is just reality and not me on a jockey-hating tirade...I actually respect jockeys a lot, but I am alos an owner and I see who pays for everything in this sport and who makes the money in this sport, which is no secret....

It's funny because I actually disagree with the original poster a little bit...I believe that Rafael Bejarano is the most talented and best rider in the game...Leparoux is a very solid up-and-comer but I like Rafael's athleticism more, and he is not scared to try on cheap horses, which many prima donas out there won't do....I believe Ramon Dominguez is the most UNDERrated rider in the country if that helps your original question, but they all probably get too much credit for their actions when one of their horses win IMO - but that is how the racing world is set up...the media can't interview the horse so the next logical figure they can latch onto as a 'star' is the jockey because they are interviewable (well some of them are)..LOL

I disagree totally, how is Dominguez underrated?