bravo mr paulick, bloodhorse

[Danzig]

for having the guts to say what so many others won't. for facing the elephant in the corner that no one wants to acknowledge!! for calling out the jockeys guild on their rotten decision to replace that joke gertmenian with not one, but two people with NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER about this industry.

jockeys better look to themselves, for the devil is loose ( for those wondering where THAT came from, see king phillipe auguste and his note to prince john when king richard lionheart was headed home!)

[blackthroatedwind]

To be fair, Steve Crist beat him to the punch, but I wholeheartedly agree that both of them should be congratulated for voicing their opinions about this issue ( I'm sure it helps that we also happen to agree with them ).

Racing needs more voices speaking out about the game. Ray's recent articles about the other Jackson, involving unethical practices in the horse sales, were especially good and a great step for Bloodhorse.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

To be fair, Steve Crist beat him to the punch, but I wholeheartedly agree that both of them should be congratulated for voicing their opinions about this issue ( I'm sure it helps that we also happen to agree with them ).

Racing needs more voices speaking out about the game. Ray's recent articles about the other Jackson, involving unethical practices in the horse sales, were especially good and a great step for Bloodhorse.

Yeah, I liked that article as well, blackthroatwind.....I cringe everytime I hear a story about some bloodstock agent or trainer setting up a deal to screw owners in our game with kick-back deals...makes me nauseated...and the sad thing is that I hear about it ALL the time and I think many people would be VERY surprised about the figures in our sport that have participated in this....

I hope Jackson nails all of their asses to the wall if indeed they are guilty of the allegations......In my opinion, this sport has several issues but one of the most important is the protection of owners from these type of predators and opportunists.....OWNERS ARE THE LIFE BLOOD OF THIS INDUSTRY, they pay all the relavent bills and fund occupations for just about everybody involved in the industry, really, especially trainers, bloodstock agents, etc....

This game is a losing proposition from an investor's standpoint 9-out of-10 times, yet when we lure in great people like Jess Jackson to invest millions and millions of dollars into our industry, What do we do?....we rip them off on countless occassions - and the sad thing is that it was the people whom he hired to confide in.......it is a shame and I am truly embarrased for our sport everytime I read about or hear about these dealings.....Really smart idea to pisss off the guy who owns Kendall-Jackson winery and can help secure our game as a premier investor for years to come....Smart..I'm sure he has a really good taste in his mouth about our game now....

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

what about jt lundy and calumet..that made me so mad i wanted to give him a beating..

[blackthroatedwind]

There are so many disgraceful things about this issue it's hard to know where to start. Here's a guy willing to invest tens, if not hundreds, of millions in the game and people can't steal his money fast enough. If they just waited around they could get the same dollars, if not more, but dealing with him legitimately. So everybody loses.

However, sadly some of the blame goes to the many owners who know they are getting ripped off and are too embarrassed to go public. The parasites stealing from them count on this. Look how long it too Satish Sanan to make accusations. Hopefully the allegations by Jess Jackson and Satish Sanan will make it easier for others to come forward.

Sport of Kings.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

thats the other guy...dwl did a number on that one time rich guy..

[Scav]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

thats the other guy...dwl did a number on that one time rich guy..

DWL does a number on all his horses

[blackthroatedwind]

Oh, I think Satish is still pretty wealthy.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Oh, I think Satish is still pretty wealthy.

he helped lighten those pockets a few mill..

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are so many disgraceful things about this issue it's hard to know where to start. Here's a guy willing to invest tens, if not hundreds, of millions in the game and people can't steal his money fast enough. If they just waited around they could get the same dollars, if not more, but dealing with him legitimately. So everybody loses.

However, sadly some of the blame goes to the many owners who know they are getting ripped off and are too embarrassed to go public. The parasites stealing from them count on this. Look how long it too Satish Sanan to make accusations. Hopefully the allegations by Jess Jackson and Satish Sanan will make it easier for others to come forward.

Sport of Kings.

That's got to be very true. These people are worth tens of millions and if they cannot get a fair shake, ..... Maye they're just stung so hard that all they wanted to do is to be made whole and get the hell out. I don't imagine they'd be looking to make a story out of it, but I might be wrong. It's got to leave a very bad taste for people like this who take a sporting interest in racing.

Originally Posted by Scav

DWL does a number on all his horses

This is why after all of the great things Lukas has done for this game, I still find it hard for me to talk to him or even look at him....it is a complex I probably need to just get over, but all I can think about when I see him on a backside is how big of a crook he is......It is very sad for a guy who loves this sport as much as I do to see some of its prominent figures like D Wayne (and MANY others who are every bit as big as Lukas, but I won't offer names) be such a disappointment and disgrace to horse racing.....I could cry I get so frustrated thinking about it.....

I mean, would Cash and Torre ever think about taking Steinbrenner's money and signing A-Rod for a $20 million signing bonus on the account that A-Rod kicks them back $5 million each?.....No...our sport is plagued by scandalist individuals that practice this unethical (and illegal, frankely) behavior on a consistent basis.....its pathetic..

In my opinion (and if I had the power to do it I would), I believe ALL bloodstock agents and trainers that are in a position to represent an owner and spend his money MUST be certified agents....to get certified they would have to take money mangement and ethics courses, etc....and if there was ever any violation by a certified agent then you pull his right to purchase for a timeframe that is fair and fine him....That system is a brainstorm and obviously a better process would probably need to be put into place - but the point is that we need to take measure to protect our games core investors.....only a VERY small percentage of the American public can affoird to be involved in this game - especially since there is nobody out there who could put a business plan together that would show this game as being an positive investment opportunity and not just a hobby (and this is not counting syndication groups) - thus we have really limited ourselves by the number of owners we can turnover in this game....If we don't maximize our opportunity of owners - such as accomidating people like Jess Jackson and helping him get invloved when he is willing to come in with hundreds of millions of dollars - then we are putting our game and it's reputation at serious risk for securing it's future IMO...

..I just am not sold that sindications are going to prove to save our game from an investors standpoint...it is a great thing but I know that I wouldn't feel that great about owning 1/100th of a horse and never had any control in that horse and most people don't like not having control when they know that they are facing what is likely to be a losing proposition from the beginning...we need to find ways to accomidate and protect guys like Eugene Melnyk, Jess Jackson, Ahmad Zayat (who may be getting zapped as we speak if you know what I mean), and many others who have made such a huge commitment to our game despite understanding that they will probably lose their asses financially.....I don't care how rich you are...Nobody likes losing money, and I certainly know that nobody likes getting ripped off!!!

We must change......

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

This is why after all of the great things Lukas has done for this game, I still find it hard for me to talk to him or even look at him....it is a complex I probably need to just get over, but all I can think about when I see him on a backside is how big of a crook he is......It is very sad for a guy who loves this sport as much as I do to see some of its prominent figures like D Wayne (and MANY others who are every bit as big as Lukas, but I won't offer names) be such a disappointment and disgrace to horse racing.....I could cry I get so frustrated thinking about it.....

I mean, would Cash and Torre ever think about taking Steinbrenner's money and signing A-Rod for a $20 million signing bonus on the account that A-Rod kicks them back $5 million each?.....No...our sport is plagued by scandalist individuals that practice this unethical (and illegal, frankely) behavior on a consistent basis.....its pathetic..

In my opinion (and if I had the power to do it I would), I believe ALL bloodstock agents and trainers that are in a position to represent an owner and spend his money MUST be certified agents....to get certified they would have to take money mangement and ethics courses, etc....and if there was ever any violation by a certified agent then you pull his right to purchase for a timeframe that is fair and fine him....That system is a brainstorm and obviously a better process would probably need to be put into place - but the point is that we need to take measure to protect our games core investors.....only a VERY small percentage of the American public can affoird to be involved in this game - especially since there is nobody out there who could put a business plan together that would show this game as being an positive investment opportunity and not just a hobby (and this is not counting syndication groups) - thus we have really limited ourselves by the number of owners we can turnover in this game....If we don't maximize our opportunity of owners - such as accomidating people like Jess Jackson and helping him get invloved when he is willing to come in with hundreds of millions of dollars - then we are putting our game and it's reputation at serious risk for securing it's future IMO...

..I just am not sold that sindications are going to prove to save our game from an investors standpoint...it is a great thing but I know that I wouldn't feel that great about owning 1/100th of a horse and never had any control in that horse and most people don't like not having control when they know that they are facing what is likely to be a losing proposition from the beginning...we need to find ways to accomidate and protect guys like Eugene Melnyk, Jess Jackson, Ahmad Zayat (who may be getting zapped as we speak if you know what I mean), and many others who have made such a huge commitment to our game despite understanding that they will probably lose their asses financially.....I don't care how rich you are...Nobody likes losing money, and I certainly know that nobody likes getting ripped off!!!

We must change......

Why the hell aren't they regulated or certified? I guess the problem is that there is no punishment severe enough to stop the unscrupulous types from doing their ill. There are probsably few, if any, barriers to entry into the professions you talk about. Just an ability and willingness to separate people from their money.

You cannot expect any change unless you are able to get people or entitities to put enough skin in the game so that it hurts very badly when things like this happen. them

Well this all depends on what direction the Guild wants to go in. If they want a trump card in negotiations the Jesse Jackson is not a bad ally to have. But you have to remember, Mr Jackson will want his lions share. If jockeys want a bigger slice of the pie then I think they hired a couple of good people. The past Germ was a liar and didnt have any skill at all. Mr Manely and Mr Jackson have successful past. I have a feeling Mr Jackson wont be around much until it is time for him to be on tv or to fill his pockets.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well this all depends on what direction the Guild wants to go in. If they want a trump card in negotiations the Jesse Jackson is not a bad ally to have. But you have to remember, Mr Jackson will want his lions share. If jockeys want a bigger slice of the pie then I think they hired a couple of good people. The past Germ was a liar and didnt have any skill at all. Mr Manely and Mr Jackson have successful past. I have a feeling Mr Jackson wont be around much until it is time for him to be on tv or to fill his pockets.

I agree, Euro.

Bloodstock Agents are more and more getting the reputations as the Lawyers of the Horse Racing Society......It is not prestigious to be in that profession this day and age in our game.....the best thing that new owners need to do is learn a bit about the game before they dive in head first and entrust these packs of wolves with their money.....My father invests more money into the game now for the SOLE REASON that he can trust me handling his business, but most investors have to trust people they have had no previous dealings with and this sport breeds more unethical behavior than maybe any other in the world.....

The sad thing about our game though is that even true certified professionals find a way to cheat and steal too......I know many Vets, Blacksmiths and van compaies that have also participated in a healthy share of overcharging owners, and it is harder to do anything about that....

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

for having the guts to say what so many others won't. for facing the elephant in the corner that no one wants to acknowledge!! for calling out the jockeys guild on their rotten decision to replace that joke gertmenian with not one, but two people with NO KNOWLEDGE WHATSOEVER about this industry.

jockeys better look to themselves, for the devil is loose ( for those wondering where THAT came from, see king phillipe auguste and his note to prince john when king richard lionheart was headed home!)

Mr Paulick's "Fool Me Twice" was very well written...bold, truthful.
Just my two pennies worth...but if the Jockey Guild really thinks these two will give them a "fair shake"...they have indeed been fooled twice.

"Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me."

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Bloodstock Agents are more and more getting the reputations as the Lawyers of the Horse Racing Society......It is not prestigious to be in that profession this day and age in our game.....the best thing that new owners need to do is learn a bit about the game before they dive in head first and entrust these packs of wolves with their money.....My father invests more money into the game now for the SOLE REASON that he can trust me handling his business, but most investors have to trust people they have had no previous dealings with and this sport breeds more unethical behavior than maybe any other in the world.....

The sad thing about our game though is that even true certified professionals find a way to cheat and steal too......I know many Vets, Blacksmiths and van compaies that have also participated in a healthy share of overcharging owners, and it is harder to do anything about that....

That is SO true, Joel... it's like that all across the board in the horse world. Showing jumpers was the same way for me. It used to cost me $115 every 5 weeks for shoes ALONE per horse.

Here's the thing though for me... IMO, if an owner is ignorant about the business, then they should make an active effort to become as knowledgeable as possible before jumping in head first. I think that more often than not, people are ignorant about things and ignorance is a HUGE problem. It's nobody's fault but your own if you don't know what kind of game you're getting into. I'm not saying that its right for owners to get ripped off, but if more people knew what they were getting into, there would be less chance of them getting ripped off.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

That is SO true, Joel... it's like that all across the board in the horse world. Showing jumpers was the same way for me. It used to cost me $115 every 5 weeks for shoes ALONE per horse.

Here's the thing though for me... IMO, if an owner is ignorant about the business, then they should make an active effort to become as knowledgeable as possible before jumping in head first. I think that more often than not, people are ignorant about things and ignorance is a HUGE problem. It's nobody's fault but your own if you don't know what kind of game you're getting into. I'm not saying that its right for owners to get ripped off, but if more people knew what they were getting into, there would be less chance of them getting ripped off.

I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly, but most prospective owners with that sort of money don't care to afford the time to do that because they don't realize that they could be jumping into a business where they really have to be worried about trusting their confidants/agents.....It is a bizarre shame....

On top of that, we need to make it as easy as possible for owners to get into this game because we need all of them that we can get.....if we start getting a big reputation for scandle and shinnanigans then it is going to do one of two things for people trying to get into the game from an owners investment standpoint:

1) Prospective owners are just going to say 'screw it' and invest in another hobby that they'll enjoy since they realize it won't be a profitable investment - thus why take a chance at getting ripped off on top of it?

2) Will do a lot of research like you mentioned before entrusting anybody with there money....While that is the sart thing to do anyway if you want to be an owner, the way it hurts horse racing is that we're making it harder for someone to be an owner because now they have to do all of this studying and research to understand who to trust because it is such a corrput game....If we have that bad of a reputation that we make it that hard to invest then it is a huge detractor to our sport...We need to make it as easy ad relatively risk-free as it can be....We can't tell them that they will probably lose money and that they might get ripped off at the same time, can we?...NO..

...we need to clean up the game and we need to do it sooner rather than later..........

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I agree with your sentiments whole-heartedly, but most prospective owners with that sort of money don't care to afford the time to do that because they don't realize that they could be jumping into a business where they really have to be worried about trusting their confidants/agents.....It is a bizarre shame....

On top of that, we need to make it as easy as possible for owners to get into this game because we need all of them that we can get.....if we start getting a big reputation for scandle and shinnanigans then it is going to do one of two things for people trying to get into the game from an owners investment standpoint:

1) Prospective owners are just going to say 'screw it' and invest in another hobby that they'll enjoy since they realize it won't be a profitable investment - thus why take a chance at getting ripped off on top of it?

2) Will do a lot of research like you mentioned before entrusting anybody with there money....While that is the sart thing to do anyway if you want to be an owner, the way it hurts horse racing is that we're making it harder for someone to be an owner because now they have to do all of this studying and research to understand who to trust because it is such a corrput game....If we have that bad of a reputation that we make it that hard to invest then it is a huge detractor to our sport...

I agree with all of that as well, but for me, I tend to be a bit careful about EVERYTHING that I devote my time and money to (including relationships lol) no matter how trustworthy the people are. It stinks that we have to do it that way, but it's human nature (unfortunately) to be liars and cheaters. You've gotta watch your back for everything.

[2MinsToPost]

since honestly I am feeling lazy today could somebody provide a link to these 2 pieces?