Turfway - Poly

[whodey17]

I went to opening night last night and all I have to say is that this surface is worse now then it was last meet. I was encouraged by Poly at first, but now I am really starting to sour. It seems that Cushion is BY FAR better.

Outside of the two breakdowns, Tapeta has been fantastic.

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Outside of the two breakdowns, Tapeta has been fantastic.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

Originally Posted by JJP

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?

I hated it. I kept having to pass my kleenex to you.

[The Bid]

They have had months to come up with new excuses, lets see what they say when it starts freezing AGAIN

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by whodey17

I went to opening night last night and all I have to say is that this surface is worse now then it was last meet. I was encouraged by Poly at first, but now I am really starting to sour. It seems that Cushion is BY FAR better.

What was it about the surface that you didnt like? Were you on it? Did you not like the way the races were playing out?

I am not a big poly proponent. I hated it last year but im starting to get use to it now. I do enjoy the fact that the fields are more full thus you get better value on the horses that you bet.

I played the card last night and it was abundantly clear that you pretty much had to throw out speed.

[cmorioles]

This is from a very recent DRF article about Turfway:

In fact, after having trouble with the surface "balling up" in horses' hooves last winter during freezing weather, Turfway decided recently to infuse the surface with an oil-based wax that Elliston said "addresses the stickiness issue." Although Turfway did not have problems with Polytrack at the 2005 or 2006 fall meets, when weather is not a major factor, "we wanted to go ahead and do this and see how it went," said Elliston.

The oil-based wax was tilled into the track over the course of several days, without disrupting training, about three weeks ago, said Elliston. The main ingredients of Polytrack include carpet fibers, recycled rubber bits, silica-coated sand, and polymer-based wax.

"The horsemen keep saying the surface is dynamite," said Elliston.

I imagine the horsemen that love the surface are those with a barn full of plodders. I think I'll stick to betting dirt (and turf) while these guys continue to tinker around with the surface at these wax tracks.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What was it about the surface that you didnt like? Were you on it? Did you not like the way the races were playing out?

I am not a big poly proponent. I hated it last year but im starting to get use to it now. I do enjoy the fact that the fields are more full thus you get better value on the horses that you bet.

I played the card last night and it was abundantly clear that you pretty much had to throw out speed.

It's nice to see a lot of horses running over a kinder surface.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It's nice to see a lot of clydesdales plodding over a kinder surface.

FTFY.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

FTFY.

Clydesdales bring the beer so don't knock them.

[whodey17]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

What was it about the surface that you didnt like? Were you on it? Did you not like the way the races were playing out?

I am not a big poly proponent. I hated it last year but im starting to get use to it now. I do enjoy the fact that the fields are more full thus you get better value on the horses that you bet.

I played the card last night and it was abundantly clear that you pretty much had to throw out speed.

Yes, I was on the track on Wednesday night. I also was on the track when they first installed Poly and the time between then and now. Although the track has been leveled, it is clear that the surface on Wednesday does not "break-up" as well as it did when it was first installed. The track is also slippery. What I mean by that is that it is hard for a horse to get a good grip on the surface. Big clumps of Poly, as well as dust, are now being kicked up by horses. I also dont think it has been playing as fair as it once did.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by whodey17

Yes, I was on the track on Wednesday night. I also was on the track when they first installed Poly and the time between then and now. Although the track has been leveled, it is clear that the surface on Wednesday does not "break-up" as well as it did when it was first installed. The track is also slippery. What I mean by that is that it is hard for a horse to get a good grip on the surface. Big clumps of Poly, as well as dust, are now being kicked up by horses. I also dont think it has been playing as fair as it once did.

I appreciate the feedback. I don't know much about Poly outside of what I have read and watched on TV. I have not been to a track that had poly yet.

I would agree with the part about it playing fair. It seems like you have to have a truly superior animal in order to win on the lead.

[Bobby Fischer]

My "book" on it last meet was that the kickback was very bad and that the best place to be was near the lead and to the outside. It wasn't exactly speed favoring(well it was compared with Kee,Arl,Del Mar), but forwardly placed horses did well in routes, and also benefited from staying out of the cloud.
Now it sounds like they tinkered with the surface. Adding the oil-wax. Worth watching and observing for a while. Maybe this dampens speed. Have to observe the kickback as well.

Ky Cup is a pretty big race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

It's nice to see a lot of horses running over a kinder surface.

but i read recently that supposedly there have been a lot more soft tissue injuries related to the poly surfaces.

anyone know if this is actually the case? trading one type of injury for another isn't a move in the right direction.

[sumitas]

Trading injuries is not the goal, for sure. What is needed is quantifiable data and toward that end, breakdowns are way down at every track I believe.

Have a great weekend.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

Trading injuries is not the goal, for sure. What is needed is quantifiable data and toward that end, breakdowns are way down at every track I believe.

Have a great weekend.

getting rid of breakdowns is obviously good, but not good for a horse who suffers an injury of another sort. of course, generally fans in attendance don't ever hear about those....keeps up the image of safety.

[ELA]

As far as "hard" data, quantifiable, I think that will be slow to come. Plus, getting data on soft-tissue injuries is going to be tough, and to be able to attribute these injuries to the poly/synthetic/etc. surface is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible.

Any data on the new surfaces are going to come from a much smaller sampling and as such might be inconclusive. I am all for reducing breakdowns. I think we are seeing different "problems" (so called problems) at different tracks across the country. I still haven't seen the hard, quantifiable data where most (percentage) trainers dislike these surfaces. Sure, there are very vocal voices of displeasure, dislike, etc., but I am not sure if that is reflective of the majority or what size group.

Kickback, weather, moisture or lack thereof, and several other issues need, and will, be addressed. It's still very new, and there will be a lifecycle to it.

Eric

[JJP]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I would agree with the part about it playing fair. It seems like you have to have a truly superior animal in order to win on the lead.

That doesn't sound like a fair track to me; it sounds like a speed-killing track, which is not a fair track.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by JJP

That doesn't sound like a fair track to me; it sounds like a speed-killing track, which is not a fair track.

Arlington is the fairest synethic out there. Surprising that Arlington could do something right.

[Riot]

As far as "hard" data, quantifiable, I think that will be slow to come. Plus, getting data on soft-tissue injuries is going to be tough, and to be able to attribute these injuries to the poly/synthetic/etc. surface is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible.

The current track study being conducted will give exactly that type of information.