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#1
10-17-2007, 12:14 PM
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Parallel universes exist
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...rticle=1&cat=0
So Ohio State did win the national championship. 
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#2
10-17-2007, 12:48 PM
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I always knew there was hope for Lexicdyses!!! Ohio State DID win 41-14!! I'm going back there now...I'm sure the Roe vs. Wade survivor will have lost that disgusting sweater. Last edited by Mortimer : 10-17-2007 at 01:28 PM.
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#4
10-17-2007, 01:24 PM
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But how does Stevie Hawking reconcile his past,present and future hanging around at the same time theory ......wth this parallel universe thing?
The thought gives me a headache. I mean...what I did yesterday continues to happen along with now and what I'll do tomorrow.......but also it's all happening...but in an opposite way....somewhere else? This could clear up the MannyFanny and New Jersey paradox.
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#5
10-17-2007, 01:39 PM
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#6
10-17-2007, 01:56 PM
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Is there a better word for awful?
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#7
10-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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deaf from birth together for a little jam session. They kill chickens and sing like they have just enhaled a whole jar of peanut butter. Splendid performance. I found it heartwarming, and at the same time elegant in its simplicity. I must now move on to the bathroom.
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#8
10-23-2007, 02:51 PM
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I thought this topic was swell and that it would get a lot more play than it has.
I'm very surprised at you...Mr. Garden.......aren't there any theoretical bones in your body??? I find it fascinating.......but need the inspiration of others to play off. I'm also surprised Dannie's Dangling Feet aren't in here.
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#9
10-23-2007, 09:40 PM
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You asked for it, you got it sister. I believe human beings are extremely limited in their ability to know. Our entire experience is severely limited by our senses. We really were not meant to know most of the things we do. Mere hunter-gatherers for most of our life history pontificating on parallel universes? I fart in our general direction. So much of what we learn is by the use of symbolism with a mixture of metaphor. Examples... its like a ball rolling down a hill... Imagine a drop of water impacting a pool of still water and look at the waves emerge... Its like a mouse trap that is half set... and on and on with the metaphors. Well most of what happens at lets say the atomic level, is way beyond our experience and senses that entertain us on the level of the large. Imagine a particle that exists at two places at the same time... one particle. Oh heck, thats just fine, I have constantly witnessed that model. NOT. Or on the level of the vast. Imagine a place in the universe that is the size of a pin-head but has the mass of 1 million suns. Its so massive that it bends the space time around it. Oh yes that is an easy one to imagine Dr. Hawking. And the good Dr. responds but the math tells us its so. And it fits some observations. So now we must have math to imagine it. And jsut where did the math come from? Is the math flawed? It certainly is. Just read Mr. Curt Godel. So we have these humble little creatures called humans made for roaming around grassland areas that are basically trying to understand stuff we were never meant to understand from an evolutionary point of view. We have done a damn good job of predicting stuff that can shows itself to us rather blantantly and fits nice math models. But when that breaks down we are lost. Being a stubborn lot we do not care and forge ahead constantly trying to understand more. The models change with new information, but is it largely an exercise in futility. And for that I am glad. Its always fun when there is another mountain to climb. But the mountains that we have no way of locating, we must ignore. And there are endless numbers of mountains that we can see. So we plod along in a very mortal way. And I thank you.
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#10
10-23-2007, 10:10 PM
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That was pretty good...really.
I grasp most of it I think. But Einstein noodled like that.....pretty out there stuff for the time.....and some of it took many years to really proove..I think. There seems to be parallels to the theoretical gang trying to understand all this which is so hard to understand.....to God who supposedly said not to try and think nor understand as He does because we cannot. So even though I'm pretty much an agnostic it always seems to me the curious world of science and a supreme being can come so close to the same thing. But I like these theories because that's how the answers come....by theorizing and trying to prove them....no? The simple size of the macro and micro overwhelm me....but so does what never started nor will ever end.I wonder if the universe ever really started or will ever really end. Maybe it constantly expands to run away from those who want to find its secrets. I think the existence of past ,present and future ......one could reason out it's possibility. Maybe we move through those sometimes. Whatever it is...the soul....the thing buried below the subconscious ......that lives on...maybe. Maybe then we find out. But it's great exercise for the artsy part of the noodle to try and imagine your way through it. I take it you don't go along with Stevie?
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#11
10-23-2007, 11:07 PM
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Morton I just kind of look at it this way:
We take for granted that some things are human constructs; That is, human inventions that are useful for communicating and for attempting to understand. Take Time for example. When I was young I thought time was something real. Little did I realize it is a human construct. If I imagine a world in which nothing ever happens, that is no events take place. Time breaks down. If nothing ever happens, if no events take place, there is no sequence of events. So time does not exist unless things happen. So when people ask what happened before the big bang I say nothing. There was no such thing as time. Well they say, what if something did happen? And I reply if something did happen we have no evidence that it did, and never will, so from our point of view time did not begin until the big bang. Time is our little way of making sense out of events. With no events, time makes absolutely no sense. Same thing with space. Where does it end? It ends where nothing exists. If I imagine a "world" with nothing in it... devoid of anything... then space has absolutley no meaning. Space has a human definition because "things" do exist in some frame of reference to each other. If nothing exists, space has no meaning. And I am not trying to be cute here. I am not trying to confuse anyone. Time and space are Human constructs. We made them up. They are ideas that only make sense in specific situations. This seems perfectly reasonable to me and does not bother me in the least. It freaks my daughter out, and I am not sure why. I never really thought about it at her age. Time ending and beginning. I just drooled. And when I did start thinking about it, and reading, it seemed very clear that we are always creating little schemes to understand. And the schemes just dont work in certain situations. Schemes like time and space can only be used under specific circumstances.
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#12
10-23-2007, 11:53 PM
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It sounds like you describe true nothing...if not for humans.
I wondered a lot what happens when one dies. How can you then be nothing...if say there is no God.It's hard to comprehend being nothing......taken out of the equation completely,but if you were nothing then you woudn't know it. .....which always brought me back to the same place. I can undertsand what you say and it does make some sense...but even without intelligence doesn't just the existence of stars and planets mean space exists....and they must go through change...over time? Even if we didn't name space and time.....woudn't they still be there...just unnamed? There's just something too well planned about the whole thing....there's too much rythm and rhyme out there to think there isn't a reason behnd all this.It's hard to believe we just are....just happened. So we named time time and space space..because they are things........or maybe they're the same thing. I don't really buy the big bang thoery....because what was there before the big bang? I guess it goes back to your idea that space nor time nor beginning has any meaning if nothing intelligent exists....or maybe you meant if absolutely nothing exists...and if that were true then there is no argument..of course. But since that's not the case....it's back to square one. How can one ever comprehend a start...a bing bang? How can anyone conceive of a paraellel universe or the existence of the past ,present and future happening all at the same time? I only come back to a plan...a plan of sorts in that things work in an orderly and predictable manner...those we understand. Maybe when we do die...maybe that's when it all come together. But I just don't think we're mistakes..I don't think anything is...it's all explainable and predictable,but well outside our comprehenison. Maybe there will be a lightning rod effect and physics will take that gigantic leap and somethings will become clearer...but I don't think so......it's the constant turning over of thought that really is intriguing and very intersting.
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#13
10-24-2007, 12:25 AM
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If we did not exist there would be no ideas. Its our little struggle. And ideas are different than actual objects. If actual objects exist, then by OUR definition, space exists. Otherwise the idea and the word space, does not exist even though objects do. And as far as God and human existence that relies on a completely different type of human thought pattern. Faith. I can see why people do believe in a God or Gods. And I can see why people dont. And of course it makes perfect sense that many people profess not to know. Its just the way we go about knowing. I really dont mean this to be mumbo jumbo. I just see human beings as unique, strange little beings that contemplate their own existence yet do not have the ability to really understand a whole lot of different aspects of what existence means. And that covers life, death, and God. Sometimes the saying Man created God in his own image makes sense to me. But not so much if one expresses some degree of humility and recognition that we cant know everything and never will. It really does not bother me that much because I realize I just dont have the ability to know, or understand, all of this. It is beyond all my models that help me navigate the world in front of me. Its not my fault, as far as I know, even though others would claim I should understand.
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#14
10-24-2007, 08:42 AM
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Now ...this is not a putdown nor wise guy remark..it really isn't.
I'm just kind of disappointed I go to a man of physics to get some interesting fill in on the latest theories consistng of really great "out there" stuff.........................and I get........phooey on it???? I mean that's about the size of what you said....right? No wonder horseracing was invented.
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#15
10-24-2007, 01:46 PM
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But I do think GhostHunters could debunk most of this stuff.
They're kind of self debunking to begin with. So do you believe in ghosts? Does theoretical physics ever delve into that area? Serious question...you would think they would have.
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#16
10-24-2007, 05:30 PM
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the nature of Science would have a problems with what I have stated. They might chastize me for not understanding the math better that might help me have the appropriate models. But then again all I have to mention is Godel, and they realize that they stand on very shaky ground. But it is still fun for them. They would however kick your behind about the beginning of the universe as we have very good evidence on the timing and events that most likely took place. They would be much more comfortable with the big bang than parallel universes, super string theory, worm holes, etc... All neat sounding little models. I also have a problem with many Physicists as they have very little training in the History of Life on earth. If they really understood the complete randomness of vertebrates let alone human beings ever happening they would not be so smug about insisting there is intelligent life somewhere else. See Steven J. Gould, Wonderful Life. The last few chapters set Physics types on their heels. It should be required reading for anyone interested in the real history of life and the randomness of ever producing anything close to a human or even anything that we might consider intelligent. Religious types conclude this book proves humans are extra special. But they dont like the conclusion of random events playing any role. They must have a guiding force. It is really hard to discuss this idea unless one reads the book. The first chapters are not necessary, the last two or three are very convincing. Sorry I am unable to play games with parallel universes or quantum theory. My math is not good enough to get a realistic grip. I dont like models without some shred of convincing modes to really be able to analyze it. Im just not smart enough.
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#17
10-24-2007, 05:40 PM
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If a ghost is what many present in movies and books then heck no I do not personally believe ghosts exist. But I cant prove anything. And no theoretical Physics geek of any stature would never delve into this kind of stuff without having a working definition of what the heck a ghost is. But I do believe 30 species of beetles have ghosts. Really... Ghosts and souls etc... are beyond the realm of science as there is no way to disprove or prove something as undefined as these things. If you come up with a working definition, and you figure out an experiment that can pick up this... energy??? or prove that the energy or ectoplasm or what ever the heck these things are do not exist, please PM me.
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#19
10-24-2007, 08:59 PM
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Peegarden you idiot. Everyone knows what ghosts are. Ghosts are... and proceed to tell me what ghosts are.
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