Tigers in trade talk with Marlins

IrishofNDMan · #1 12-04-2007, 05:37 PM

Looks like Miggy Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, and a 3rd player to be named. Look for this trade to happen in the next 24-48 hrs.

This would be awesome, I don't care about giving up Andrew Miller, and giving up Maybin sucks but for a guy like Miggy Cabrera who is one of the best in the game right now and still young is well worth it. D-Train will fit in nicely in the rotation as well.

Crown@club · #2 12-04-2007, 06:11 PM

Conflicting reports going on. Now another says the Chisox have offered Fields and others. I think they are trying to juice it to see if the Angels will bite

Cannon Shell · #3 12-04-2007, 06:19 PM

Though trading established stars for future ones is always risky, this deal may backfire for the Tigers. Caberera is a tremendous hitter but is getting fatter and fatter and lacks a position. Fat guys play less than non fat guys. Willis looks burned out. Though the jury is out on the 2 guys the Tigers are giving up, they are both top 15 prospects and are really young. However there are other players heading to FL that we dont know yet.

Scav · #4 12-04-2007, 06:26 PM

ESPNews reports on bottom line that the trade is agreed upon. Cabrera and Willis to Det, don't know the rest

GPK · #5 12-04-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Though trading established stars for future ones is always risky, this deal may backfire for the Tigers. Caberera is a tremendous hitter but is getting fatter and fatter and lacks a position. Fat guys play less than non fat guys. Willis looks burned out. Though the jury is out on the 2 guys the Tigers are giving up, they are both top 15 prospects and are really young. However there are other players heading to Detroit that we dont know yet.

Haven't played in a while, huh Chuck?

ok, that was too easy...

Cannon Shell · #6 12-04-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

Haven't played in a while, huh Chuck?

ok, that was too easy...

Pulled up lame this spring

I've done enough....

GPK · #7 12-04-2007, 06:38 PM

Wasnt it David Wells that said he has never heard of any having "pulled fat"?

Hear about pulled muscles all the time..

IrishofNDMan · #8 12-04-2007, 06:53 PM

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIGGY and D-TRAIN are TIGERS!!!!!!!!

Cannon Shell · #9 12-04-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIGGY and D-TRAIN are TIGERS!!!!!!!!

Dude the dtrain went off the tracks....

IrishofNDMan · #10 12-04-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dude the dtrain went off the tracks....

He's only 26, he has room for improvement and will very well do so. He has shown what he is capable of doing, and I expect him to have a very good year and to only get better.

Who doesn't go off the track with the Marlins??? They love to try to kill talent.

Cannon Shell · #11 12-04-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

He's only 26, he has room for improvement and will very well do so. He has shown what he is capable of doing, and I expect him to have a very good year and to only get better.

Who doesn't go off the track with the Marlins??? They love to try to kill talent.

He was horrible last year. Not bad, horrible. I will bet you the Marlins said if you want Caberera you gotta take Willis too. He gave up a ton of hits, his walk rate has been going up the last 2 years, the K rate dropping, all really bad signs of a burned out pitcher. Too many innings too early. Playing in the AL wont help either. They actually rarely keep talent long enough to kill it. But in this case you may be right.

SentToStud · #12 12-04-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Though trading established stars for future ones is always risky, this deal may backfire for the Tigers. Caberera is a tremendous hitter but is getting fatter and fatter and lacks a position. Fat guys play less than non fat guys. Willis looks burned out. Though the jury is out on the 2 guys the Tigers are giving up, they are both top 15 prospects and are really young. However there are other players heading to FL that we dont know yet.

Cabrera's down 15 pounds since the end of the season. He'll have a good or very good year next season wherever he plays. He's had next to nothing batting in fron/behind him. I imagine he'd be a tougher out batting between Sheffield and Guillen. He's not great or even good in the field. He'll probably wind up at first base someday.

I think Willis is still very good. In 6 week stretch, he lost games 3-0, 3-2, 3-2, 4-3 and 4-3. He also won his last four starts. Never misses a start.

Cannon Shell · #13 12-04-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Cabrera's down 15 pounds since the end of the season. He'll have a good or very good year next season wherever he plays. He's had next to nothing batting in fron/behind him. I imagine he'd be a tougher out batting between Sheffield and Guillen. He's not great or even good in the field. He'll probably wind up at first base someday.

I think Willis is still very good. In 6 week stretch, he lost games 3-0, 3-2, 3-2, 4-3 and 4-3. He also won his last four starts. Never misses a start.

Caberera is a very good hitter who should fit in well in Detroit's lineup, though he is moving up from AAAA to the majors

Willis was one thing last year. Consistent. He was pretty much either mediocre or bad. His home and away stats were very close to equal. He was slightly worse in the second half of the season but pitched his best game the last week of the season.
He gave up hits, lots of them. The league batted .300 off of him at home and .289 on the road. there is no pitcher in the history of baseball that the league hit .290 off of that could be considered good. He was brutal last year. I have not looked it up but his numbers have to be the worst in the league for a starter with more than 20 starts. His dropoff from 2005 when he was tremendous is startling.

During that 6 week stretch he also had back to back games where he didn't get out of the 4 inning without being pounded.

Though there is no concrete proof, the innings he pitched along with his pitching style must have injured his arm somewhat. Because he has gone from maybe the best pitcher in the league 2 years ago to maybe the worst. If I wasn't so tired I would try to find another fall from grace in baseball history that wasn't due to injury

whodey17 · #14 12-05-2007, 12:16 AM

What a freaking line-up. Granderson, Polaco, Mags, Sheff, Ordonez, Puge, and I am sure I am forgetting a couple of guys. Speed and power and avg: they have it all. I could care less about D-Train. If they get 10 wins out of him then fine. But with this line-up he could have an ERA over 5 and still win 15.

Cannon Shell · #15 12-05-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17

What a freaking line-up. Granderson, Polaco, Mags, Sheff, Ordonez, Puge, and I am sure I am forgetting a couple of guys. Speed and power and avg: they have it all. I could care less about D-Train. If they get 10 wins out of him then fine. But with this line-up he could have an ERA over 5 and still win 15.

This is a Yankees type move. Fail to address your real issue (pitching) and give up your whole system (between this trade and the one for Renteria). They have an imposing lineup but have 4 question marks in the rotation besides Verlander. Bonderman was not good, Rogers is a fossil, Robertson is a 5th starter at best and Willis was really bad last year in the NL, this is not going to be easier. They also are depending on guys coming off of career years (Mags, Granderson, Polonco) and old guys (Todd Jones, Sheffield, Mags knees, Pudge, Rogers). The lineup looks imposing on paper but if they dont get more pitching, they will have traded the future for a team that has a 2 year window.

The real issue may be the Marlins may have a payroll of les than 10 million next year. Why wont baseball force them to try to be competitive?

whodey17 · #16 12-05-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a Yankees type move. Fail to address your real issue (pitching) and give up your whole system (between this trade and the one for Renteria). They have an imposing lineup but have 4 question marks in the rotation besides Verlander. Bonderman was not good, Rogers is a fossil, Robertson is a 5th starter at best and Willis was really bad last year in the NL, this is not going to be easier. They also are depending on guys coming off of career years (Mags, Granderson, Polonco) and old guys (Todd Jones, Sheffield, Mags knees, Pudge, Rogers). The lineup looks imposing on paper but if they dont get more pitching, they will have traded the future for a team that has a 2 year window.

The real issue may be the Marlins may have a payroll of les than 10 million next year. Why wont baseball force them to try to be competitive?

Agree 100% about the Tigers pitching and this being a "Yankee like move." I think baseball should get rid of the Marlins and Devil Rays. Fewer Teams, better quality of play.

IrishofNDMan · #17 12-05-2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a Yankees type move. Fail to address your real issue (pitching) and give up your whole system (between this trade and the one for Renteria). They have an imposing lineup but have 4 question marks in the rotation besides Verlander. Bonderman was not good, Rogers is a fossil, Robertson is a 5th starter at best and Willis was really bad last year in the NL, this is not going to be easier. They also are depending on guys coming off of career years (Mags, Granderson, Polonco) and old guys (Todd Jones, Sheffield, Mags knees, Pudge, Rogers). The lineup looks imposing on paper but if they dont get more pitching, they will have traded the future for a team that has a 2 year window.

The real issue may be the Marlins may have a payroll of les than 10 million next year. Why wont baseball force them to try to be competitive?

Starting pitching is not the issue, the bullpen however is a serious issue that they need to correct. I want to know why the hell they signed Todd Jones??? The guy is terrible!!!!!

IrishofNDMan · #18 12-05-2007, 02:47 PM

I've been telling all my friends for the past 2 years now that the Tigers need to get Willis, he was def. my favorite player who was not on the Tigers. Like you said Cannon, I am almost positive that for the Tigers to get Cabrera the Marlins made them take Willis off their hands as well, they wanted him gone at all cost. I said this before Cabrera became a tiger, and have always believed that he is the best offensive player in the game right now. Teams were able to pitch around Cabrera because he had no protection in that terrible lineup, and he still always put up .300+ hitting seasons. Inge will still play third for the Tigers simply because of how good he is at it, and although Cabrera is a big boy, he will go back to his days in left I think.

My gf has been bugging me about what I want for Christmas, and now she knows to get me a Tigers D-Train jersey.

Cannon Shell · #19 12-05-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

Starting pitching is not the issue, the bullpen however is a serious issue that they need to correct. I want to know why the hell they signed Todd Jones??? The guy is terrible!!!!!

Let me show you something in simple terms so you will understand.
Tigers starters and ranking by 2006 ERA (starters with more than 12 starts)
Verlander ERA 3.60 11th in AL ( solid ace of staff)
Rogers ERA 4.43 41st in AL ( was hurt but is going to be 43 years old)
Durbin ERA 4.72 48th in AL
Robertson ERA 4.76 49th in AL
Bonderman ERA 5.01 52nd in AL
Maroth ERA 5.06 53rd in AL
Willis ERA 5.17 65th in NL

I understand ERA is influenced by outside factors but considering they play in a pitching friendly park those numbers are pretty scary. Verlander is a topline number 1 starter but outside of him there are giant question marks. Rogers has had some pretty good years but is very hittable, coming off an injury and is old. Durbin is less than average, same with Robertson. Bonderman was awful late in the year after a good start and was shutdown with a bad elbow for the 2nd time in three years. Maroth is not good and Willis has regressed as stated before. This is a staff with a lot of question marks and injury risks. Matched up to Boston, LAA, Cleveland or the Yankees and they are easily the worst of the bunch.

Jones is not overpowering, is far from the prototypical closer and occasionally gets hammered but had the same amount of blown saves as KRod and Jenks and less than Borowski. He aint great but they could win with him.

Cannon Shell · #20 12-05-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishofNDMan

I've been telling all my friends for the past 2 years now that the Tigers need to get Willis, he was def. my favorite player who was not on the Tigers. Like you said Cannon, I am almost positive that for the Tigers to get Cabrera the Marlins made them take Willis off their hands as well, they wanted him gone at all cost. I said this before Cabrera became a tiger, and have always believed that he is the best offensive player in the game right now. Teams were able to pitch around Cabrera because he had no protection in that terrible lineup, and he still always put up .300+ hitting seasons. Inge will still play third for the Tigers simply because of how good he is at it, and although Cabrera is a big boy, he will go back to his days in left I think.

My gf has been bugging me about what I want for Christmas, and now she knows to get me a Tigers D-Train jersey.

That pitching around stuff is overrated unless you are Barry Bonds. I would seriously doubt he will play left especially in Comerica. They did get Jaques Jones too.