Woman Arrested For Socializing with Men

[Rupert Pupkin]

This is unbelievable. I didn't realize that things were still this bad in Saudi Arabia. An American businesswoman was arrested at a Starbucks in Saudi Arabia for sitting with a male colleague.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3321637.ece

[SCUDSBROTHER]

No matter what,you're gunna have somebody come on here and say it's cool that they are savages.Happens every time.They are "EASTERN." So,somehow it's o.k. to act like savages.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

This is unbelievable. I didn't realize that things were still this bad in Saudi Arabia. An American businesswoman was arrested at a Starbucks in Saudi Arabia for sitting with a male colleague.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3321637.ece

It's not nice to talk like that about our allies, especially one that was home to 16 of the 19 hijackers and teaches Wahhabi Islam in its public schools:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...wahhabism.html

Seriously, Rupert, it's all too believable. I'm just curious as to what made you think things were getting any better in Saudi Arabia. Note in the link that the Prince of Saudi Arabia condemned bin Laden (who had already been exiled) but not the line of (state supported) radical religious thought used to motivate the hijackers.

Like I said, our ally.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

We have the Grammy Awards,Dog Shows,American Idol,Horseracing etc....Their entertainment is going to see a public be-heading of a fellow citizen.

[The Bid]

What do you expect from people who are still killing each other with rocks over religion.

There is a fairly large contingent of Ultra-Orthodox Jews who practice the same sort of segregation of sexes. They would not arrest a foreign vistor, but they might ask them to go into another room... not at a Starbuck's though.

ANd I have been to a few Christian weddings that emphasized that the woman's role was to serve the wishes of the head of the family (total subserveint role). This is not exactly new and not just restricted to the Mideast.

This is not to justify the Saudi's rules.
It seems pretty clear the roots are deep
in many socities however.

We of course have risen above this morally.
cornered the market on morality, ask Pat Robertson

[Danzig]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330642,00.html


a far cry from morals police, and threats of jail....but still room for improvement here as well...

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

This is not to justify the Saudi's rules.[/size]

It's to be contrarian.Both your's and Danzig's were posted for that reason.The difference is that this is an everyday 365 days/year thing in a country like Saudi Arabia.Like the story says,they have a whole group of state thugs looking for stuff like this mixing of the sexes(without being married.)I knew you were coming.You couldn't resist the Islam apologetic crap.I know you have this nervous need to balance all the equations,but it's just not possible.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It's to be contrarian.Both your's and Danzig's were posted for that reason.The difference is that this is an everyday 365 days/year thing in a country like Saudi Arabia.Like the story says,they have a whole group of state thugs looking for stuff like this mixing of the sexes(without being married.)I knew you were coming.You couldn't resist the Islam apologetic crap.I know you have this nervous need to balance all the equations,but it's just not possible.

i didn't post the above to be contrarian scuds. i posted it because women don't have a long way to go just in saudi arabia. even we here in the u.s. have room for improvement. as i said in my post above, it's not on the same level as having police arrest you, but disturbing all the same.

[dylbert]

Everytime I leave United States, I remind myself "I am not in US and must abide by laws and regulations of country where I travel." As US military brat we travelled many places, we met people all over the globe that sought freedom we so readlily enjoy.

Several years ago, we had an intern from The Gambia, where I work. He was amazed that he could travel from New Orleans to Dallas without seeking government permission. Also, he commented that police that he encountered were not checking everyone's official documents, and were both friendly and helpful. Food for thought, world travellers...

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It's to be contrarian.Both your's and Danzig's were posted for that reason.The difference is that this is an everyday 365 days/year thing in a country like Saudi Arabia.Like the story says,they have a whole group of state thugs looking for stuff like this mixing of the sexes(without being married.)I knew you were coming.You couldn't resist the Islam apologetic crap.I know you have this nervous need to balance all the equations,but it's just not possible.

A little story.
My daughter was going to bible study
and the subject got into the woman's role.
One of the "teachers" basically stated the husband
is the head of the household, your job is to have
babies and stay humble and quiet.

This is in the United States of America. This attitude
still exists. So dont go spouting off that Islam is the
only religion to deem women inferior. There are plenty
of Christians that have so much in common with Muslims
in reguards to women. It just so happens that in countries
that are totalitarian or run by religion this stuff becomes law.

But THE FRGGN IDEA is rife in many cultures. They deal
women in so many places in Southeast Asia it would make
you sick. They are property to be used for sexual pleasure
only and beaten and killed if they dont do a good job at it.
Open your eyes and get out of Turkey.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

It just so happens that in countries
that are totalitarian or run by religion this stuff becomes law.

Fact is you have a choice here as to what religion you want to have(or have none,)and (since Romney didn't get nominated,) we are gunna be able to keep state and church separated.Fact is that in most Moslem countries there is no freedom of religion.These Moslem laws they have apply to all citizens.No,I am gunna state right now,sir, that this is an evil religion started by a butcher,and he killed those who didn't submit to his authority.If I don't want to celebrate Christmas,or Easter here,then I sure don't have to.That's simply not the case in Moslem countries.If you live there, and don't believe in ISLAM,you sure better pretend you do.You better go through the charade of RAMADAM,or you will be in danger.You're gunna be called the Devil etc.I resent my friend having to go thru this f'n charade,and I resent them killing women by cracking their head open with chunks of concrete.Like I said at the start of this thread,I knew you were gunna come do this bullshit.You can't wait to try to make other religions equivalent to the evil in Islam.Go ahead,I don't agree with you.I don't agree with the Christians you're speaking about,but I sure don't see them throwing stones and concrete at young women.You know what that is? It's not a cultural difference.No,it's pure evil.I am willing to face that they are evil,and you want to call it a cultural difference etc. Arresting women for simply talking to a man? That's pure evil.It's an evil religion.There is no way to protect yourself from it unless you keep those that follow this religion away from you.I don't want anybody who believes in stoning to be allowed in my country(at all.) If you think women should be arrested for simply talking to men,then I don't want you in my country(at all.) If you think ISLAM is the only religion that should be allowed,then I don't want you here (at all.) Now when the rest of the Americans want the same,then we will be able to keep these people out.Until then,they can come over here and run amuck,and you can feel like you have been fair with these poor hated Moslems.I guess we can't call them evil,because somewhere in the world there are other evil people.So,God forbide we call evil for what it is.You're whole way of discussing issues comes down to "well this is also going on somewhere else." They have to be the only evil people,or you're afraid it isn't fair to point just them out.Great, why don't you tell us where other evil is going on.I have no problem with that,but don't use it as an excuse for this evil religion to be forgiven.You're constantly doing this.You should start another thread on these other evils.Don't use it to excuse this evil.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i didn't post the above to be contrarian scuds. i posted it because women don't have a long way to go just in saudi arabia. even we here in the u.s. have room for improvement. as i said in my post above, it's not on the same level as having police arrest you, but disturbing all the same.

Fine,but I don't like it to be used as an excuse for the original problem.This thing of explaining something away because some of it exists somewhere else? I don't get that.Why do you and him do that?It's constant on here.I swear,60 years ago you two would try to lessen the importance of a lynching by saying they had one in the next state,too.You would say these lynchings are common in a lot of states.I don't understand the mindset.It's the same mindset that says it's o.k. to lose,because everyone around you is losing.That's a weird one,too.

[Danzig]

no, i am not condoning it. i agree completely that it is evil. my point was that there are still issues with women being treated as lesser in other places as well.
i put the link to that article in this thread, as it was the most recent thread on the subject. there was no ulterior motive on my part at all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Fine,but I don't like it to be used as an excuse for the original problem.This thing of explaining something away because some of it exists somewhere else? I don't get that.Why do you and him do that?It's constant on here.I swear,60 years ago you two would try to lessen the importance of a lynching by saying they had one in the next state,too.You would say these lynchings are common in a lot of states.I don't understand the mindset.It's the same mindset that says it's o.k. to lose,because everyone around you is losing.That's a weird one,too.

that is completely ridiculous.

[Mortimer]

i didn't post the above to be contrarian scuds. i posted it because women don't have a long way to go just in saudi arabia. even we here in the u.s. have room for improvement. as i said in my post above, it's not on the same level as having police arrest you, but disturbing all the same.
=================

We're still waiting.

You can't wait to try to make other religions equivalent to the evil in Islam

What the hell...
Here is what I am saying:
You can read religious texts from almost any of the the religions that branched off from Judiaism... Christianity and then from Christianity came Islam, and you can find in those texts some pretty awful stuff. Have you ever read the OLD TESTATMENT. Any of these sects taken from an ultraconservative view can make absolutely viscious assertions. Add a little poverty to the mix, throw in a government that is run by the sects,and this could happen easily in Christianity (read the OLD TESTAMENT). Its like saying the Holocaust could have only happened in Germany.

I understand you. I think there is a very dangerous movement in Islam
that is completely against any individual rights. Horribly repressive groups
that hate Western ways and everything about them. From Women clad
in bikinis, to the overt display of dissproportionate wealth (this should sound familiar to you and your thoughts), and the totally hedonistic, unbrotherly ways of the Western world. There are Christians right now that say the same thing. Only thing is there is no uprising because they do not live in horrible poverty in huge numbers being fed weapons by their richer allies that are using them as cannon fodder.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that is completely ridiculous.

It is exactly the way you 2 respond to threads.Always a need to lessen the impact of someboy's evil by saying the same evil exists somewhere else,or in PGRDNS case ,the same evil could exist somewhere else (if certain conditions were met.) If you notice,he quickly brings up Christianity whenever Islam is brought up.It's always this way.It's as if I say Christianity is great.Meanwhile,I have a brother I rarely talk to because he is so into Old Testament Christianity.So,I am not crazy about Christianity.PGRDN has to use Christianity to counter the evils of Islam.I am not saying Christianity is
great,and ISLAM is evil.I am saying ISLAM is evil.There is no doubt in my mind that ISLAM is pure evil.If he wants to say Christianity is pure evil,then I don't have a problem with that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It is exactly the way you 2 respond to threads.Always a need to lessen the impact of someboy's evil by saying the same evil exists somewhere else,or in PGRDNS case ,the same evil could exist somewhere else (if certain conditions were met.) If you notice,he quickly brings up Christianity whenever Islam is brought up.It's always this way.It's as if I say Christianity is great.Meanwhile,I have a brother I rarely talk to because he is so into Old Testament Christianity.So,I am not crazy about Christianity.PGRDN has to use Christianity to counter the evils of Islam.I am not saying Christianity is
great,and ISLAM is evil.I am saying ISLAM is evil.There is no doubt in my mind that ISLAM is pure evil.If he wants to say Christianity is pure evil,then I don't have a problem with that.

i don't think that pointing out a problem exists elsewhere somehow lessens it anywhere. as i had said in my first post above, 'A FAR CRY FROM'. so how can that show i'm comparing the two?? i know, and have said repeatedly, that things here are one hell of a lot better, and have said i'm incredibly thankful that i live here.

but i have to disagree with your contention that islam is evil. certain sects of that religion are--and those muslim extremists kill their 'fellow muslims' as they don't follow the same rules as the extremists.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

It is exactly the way you 2 respond to threads.Always a need to lessen the impact of someboy's evil by saying the same evil exists somewhere else,or in PGRDNS case ,the same evil could exist somewhere else (if certain conditions were met.) If you notice,he quickly brings up Christianity whenever Islam is brought up.It's always this way.It's as if I say Christianity is great.Meanwhile,I have a brother I rarely talk to because he is so into Old Testament Christianity.So,I am not crazy about Christianity.PGRDN has to use Christianity to counter the evils of Islam.I am not saying Christianity is
great,and ISLAM is evil.I am saying ISLAM is evil.There is no doubt in my mind that ISLAM is pure evil.If he wants to say Christianity is pure evil,then I don't have a problem with that.

Bottom line is religious zealots from almost any religion can make it evil. I have every concern in the world about today's Islam and the fact that the moderates are backing down. I have already said I see it as an almost facist movement, a snowballing effect. But I see no particular reason that the core of Islam MUST BE any more evil than other religions.
I dont see why this is so hard to understand. You have harped on some of the written words of Muhammed to illustrate how it is evil and all I have said if you take certain passages for ALMOST ANY religious text you will find some very distasteful passages. Most of these old religious texts are giant amalgamations of many peoples ideas over long periods of time. Look at the history of all these holy texts. Is there any wonder why blatant contradictions abound in all? I am conjecturing that the conditions required to make Islamic Fundamentalism a threat to basic rights are in place at this time in the History of the world.

I am looking at all the stuff going on now in a historical perspective. I see what you are saying right now.