For GB BOB

[Cannon Shell]

Farve may be gone but youve got Swisher now...


By John Dewan

Who would you rather have�
Hunter, Rowand or Swisher?

March 6, 2008


During this past offseason, the Chicago White Sox were strongly pursuing free agent center fielders Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand. They started with Hunter, and couldn't sign him. They then tried for Rowand and that didn't work either. They had to "settle" for Nick Swisher by dealing for him from Oakland. However, when you look at the numbers here, nearly every number, and certainly all the key ones, favor Swisher:
2008 Projections

Age Avg OBP SLG HR Walks OPS
Swisher 27 .265 .384 .524 36 102 .908
Hunter 32 .282 .339 .494 27  45 .833
Rowand 30 .287 .348 .452 17  38 .800

2007 Statistics
Baserunning / CF Fielding Plus/Minus
Swisher +22 +4
Hunter -10   0
Rowand   -1 -4

Sometimes what you want may not be what's best for you. In this case, that's exactly what happened to the White Sox. Swisher may not wind up in center field for the Sox, but he is a very valuable acquisition for them, especially because he can play center field well if needed.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Farve may be gone but youve got Swisher now...


By John Dewan

Who would you rather have�
Hunter, Rowand or Swisher?

March 6, 2008


During this past offseason, the Chicago White Sox were strongly pursuing free agent center fielders Torii Hunter and Aaron Rowand. They started with Hunter, and couldn't sign him. They then tried for Rowand and that didn't work either. They had to "settle" for Nick Swisher by dealing for him from Oakland. However, when you look at the numbers here, nearly every number, and certainly all the key ones, favor Swisher:
2008 Projections

Age Avg OBP SLG HR Walks OPS
Swisher 27 .265 .384 .524 36 102 .908
Hunter 32 .282 .339 .494 27  45 .833
Rowand 30 .287 .348 .452 17  38 .800

2007 Statistics
Baserunning / CF Fielding Plus/Minus
Swisher +22 +4
Hunter -10   0
Rowand   -1 -4

Sometimes what you want may not be what's best for you. In this case, that's exactly what happened to the White Sox. Swisher may not wind up in center field for the Sox, but he is a very valuable acquisition for them, especially because he can play center field well if needed.

I still would rather have had Hunter, but not with that contract and I love Rowand, but am still suspicious of his offensive numbers. So..we'll see..Swisher is what that clubhouse needed and he's flexible in positions to allow the best players to make the team.

There pitching is much better than Detroit and they should hit again, unlike LY...could be interesting.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I still would rather have had Hunter, but not with that contract and I love Rowand, but am still suspicious of his offensive numbers. So..we'll see..Swisher is what that clubhouse needed and he's flexible in positions to allow the best players to make the team.

There pitching is much better than Detroit and they should hit again, unlike LY...could be interesting.

Did you say that the SOX pitching is better then Detroit?

Verlander, Bonderman, Willis, Robertson, Rodgers

Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd

Buehrle would probably bump Rodgers or Willis but the others? And don't give me Contreras because you know he is brutal

Both bullpens are sketchy, except Jenks who is decent....

Kool Aid must be good

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

Did you say that the SOX pitching is better then Detroit?

Verlander, Bonderman, Willis, Robertson, Rodgers

Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks, Floyd

Buehrle would probably bump Rodgers or Willis but the others? And don't give me Contreras because you know he is brutal

Both bullpens are sketchy, except Jenks who is decent....

Kool Aid must be good

You name it..Contreras will win 15 this year..guaranteed

Rodgers? Is he still alive?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

You name it..Contreras will win 15 this year..guaranteed

Rodgers? Is he still alive?

Seriously though, how can you say that the Sox staff is bettern then Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson and Willis, I can see the argument with Willis but he should have a good year because not many in the AL have seen him, especially the first half of the year. I see all four of these guys haven't better years then the White Sox staff, except maybe Buerhle, who is good, but he loves to get shelled

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

Seriously though, how can you say that the Sox staff is bettern then Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson and Willis, I can see the argument with Willis but he should have a good year because not many in the AL have seen him, especially the first half of the year. I see all four of these guys haven't better years then the White Sox staff, except maybe Buerhle, who is good, but he loves to get shelled

I was referring top to bottom, but really felt my only leap was in the bridge to get to Jenks. And I think they will get that solved with Thorton, Linebrink and two others. For the starters we agree on Buerlhe and I will put my Kool Aid aside, but still wager anything you want that Vazquez and Contreras will win more than Detroit's 2 and 3. Gavin Floyd will win at least 10 in the 4 or 5 spot and Danks is good for 10, I mean he won 7 or 8 last year in half a season before hitting the rookie wall.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

I was referring top to bottom, but really felt my only leap was in the bridge to get to Jenks. And I think they will get that solved with Thorton, Linebrink and two others. For the starters we agree on Buerlhe and I will put my Kool Aid aside, but still wager anything you want that Vazquez and Contreras will win more than Detroit's 2 and 3. Gavin Floyd will win at least 10 in the 4 or 5 spot and Danks is good for 10, I mean he won 7 or 8 last year in half a season before hitting the rookie wall.

maybe Vazquez, maybe...But Contreras won't be on the team in August.....

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Scav

maybe Vazquez, maybe...But Contreras won't be on the team in August.....

You, my friend..have a bet..

I say 15 wins..you say he won't be there in Aug. If either of us is right, a dozen wings and beers at BWW w/ Joanna on the other guy

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GBBob

You, my friend..have a bet..

I say 15 wins..you say he won't be there in Aug. If either of us is right, a dozen wings and beers at BWW w/ Joanna on the other guy

done

[Cannon Shell]

Verlander is by far the best starter on either staff, hell he is the best starter on the majority of teams staffs. But after that the Tigers pitching is ugly. Rogers is old and injury prone and it is unlikely he will rebound beyond slightly below average pitcher at his best. Willis has slumped badly from his 2005 peak when he was outstanding. Though Baseball prospectus seems to feel that the Marlins defense was so bad that it cost him 1/2 run in era, he would still be in the 4.60 area with some other stats that are concerning. His Whip has gone from 1.13 (which is excellent) to 1.60 (which is not). He only allowed 213 hits in 236 innings in 2005 while last year he allowed 241 in 205 innings. His walks have also jumped from 55 in 05 to 87 last year despite the 31 fewer innings. His HR's allowed has also skyrocketed from 11 to 29. Playing with a better defense and in more of a pitchers park may help but there is also the fact that he isnt in the NL anymore and has DH's to contend with also. Nate Robertson is an average pitcher at best. Bonderman is potentially a pretty good pitcher who was excellent in 2006 but was not in 07 and wound up being shutdown late in the season due to a balky elbow. He along with Rogers and Robertson all missed time last year and are injury risks this year also. There is simply nothing else for starters. The bullpen is also a bit shaky and not particularly healthy. Todd Jones is easily the worst closer on an AL contender if not for Joe Borowoski. Fernando Rodney is always hurt (and is again), Zumaya has had 2 major injuries since his great 2006 and is not expected till late May at the earliest. There simply isnt much though Seay is a pretty good lefty only guy. The Tigers made a big splash in improving their lineup but they will need to score lots of runs because they arent going to hold anybody down on days that Verlander doesnt start.

The White Sox made some interesting moves in regards to shoring up the bullpen. Jenks is an elite closer who was lights out last year. Ehren Wasserman was effective in his big league debut last year and the addition of Scott Linebrink and a healthy Dotel gives them the advantage over the Tigers in the pen. I initially thought the Sox signing of Buehrle longterm was a mistake but I was probably wrong. He is what he is, a better than average innings eater who battles and when he keeps the ball down is effective. Vasquez was very good last year. Contreras was shaky last season as he gave up lots more hits than his par. He may have been a little unlucky as his BABIP (batting average balls in play) was an unusually high .335 but he is 57 years old now and supposedly is losing velocity which is a big problem for him. (p.s. -Scavs you finally made a good bet)
Danks is a question mark. He looked good early but faded badly. He is a fly ball pitcher which is a bad fit for the Cell unless you have biting stuff like Vasquez. Danks gave up 28 HR's in 139 innings which is not encouraging. Floyd is a potential average 4th starter. Charlie Haeger is an interesting knuckleballer that may get a shot. He may be the next tim Wakefield which doesn't sound exciting until you see how effective Wakefield has been for so long.

I have to give the overall edge to the Sox simply because the bullpen is a much better bet to succeed. If Willis regains his form, Rogers turns back the clock again, and Bonderman fufills his promise I would give them the edge in starters over the Sox but I doubt that will happen. Alot depends (as it always does) on injuries as neither team has much depth in the rotation and will be plugging in very weak replacements. Plus both teams traded away depth in the minors and dont have very many chips to trade in at the deadline.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Verlander is by far the best starter on either staff, hell he is the best starter on the majority of teams staffs. But after that the Tigers pitching is ugly. Rogers is old and injury prone and it is unlikely he will rebound beyond slightly below average pitcher at his best. Willis has slumped badly from his 2005 peak when he was outstanding. Though Baseball prospectus seems to feel that the Marlins defense was so bad that it cost him 1/2 run in era, he would still be in the 4.60 area with some other stats that are concerning. His Whip has gone from 1.13 (which is excellent) to 1.60 (which is not). He only allowed 213 hits in 236 innings in 2005 while last year he allowed 241 in 205 innings. His walks have also jumped from 55 in 05 to 87 last year despite the 31 fewer innings. His HR's allowed has also skyrocketed from 11 to 29. Playing with a better defense and in more of a pitchers park may help but there is also the fact that he isnt in the NL anymore and has DH's to contend with also. Nate Robertson is an average pitcher at best. Bonderman is potentially a pretty good pitcher who was excellent in 2006 but was not in 07 and wound up being shutdown late in the season due to a balky elbow. He along with Rogers and Robertson all missed time last year and are injury risks this year also. There is simply nothing else for starters. The bullpen is also a bit shaky and not particularly healthy. Todd Jones is easily the worst closer on an AL contender if not for Joe Borowoski. Fernando Rodney is always hurt (and is again), Zumaya has had 2 major injuries since his great 2006 and is not expected till late May at the earliest. There simply isnt much though Seay is a pretty good lefty only guy. The Tigers made a big splash in improving their lineup but they will need to score lots of runs because they arent going to hold anybody down on days that Verlander doesnt start.

The White Sox made some interesting moves in regards to shoring up the bullpen. Jenks is an elite closer who was lights out last year. Ehren Wasserman was effective in his big league debut last year and the addition of Scott Linebrink and a healthy Dotel gives them the advantage over the Tigers in the pen. I initially thought the Sox signing of Buehrle longterm was a mistake but I was probably wrong. He is what he is, a better than average innings eater who battles and when he keeps the ball down is effective. Vasquez was very good last year. Contreras was shaky last season as he gave up lots more hits than his par. He may have been a little unlucky as his BABIP (batting average balls in play) was an unusually high .335 but he is 57 years old now and supposedly is losing velocity which is a big problem for him. (p.s. -Scavs you finally made a good bet)
Danks is a question mark. He looked good early but faded badly. He is a fly ball pitcher which is a bad fit for the Cell unless you have biting stuff like Vasquez. Danks gave up 28 HR's in 139 innings which is not encouraging. Floyd is a potential average 4th starter. Charlie Haeger is an interesting knuckleballer that may get a shot. He may be the next tim Wakefield which doesn't sound exciting until you see how effective Wakefield has been for so long.

I have to give the overall edge to the Sox simply because the bullpen is a much better bet to succeed. If Willis regains his form, Rogers turns back the clock again, and Bonderman fufills his promise I would give them the edge in starters over the Sox but I doubt that will happen. Alot depends (as it always does) on injuries as neither team has much depth in the rotation and will be plugging in very weak replacements. Plus both teams traded away depth in the minors and dont have very many chips to trade in at the deadline.

Another EASY for you with the CHarlie Haeger tout..gets shelled every time he comes up.....

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Another EASY for you with the CHarlie Haeger tout..gets shelled every time he comes up.....

In o6 he pitched 18 innings, allowed 12 hits and had an era of 3.46 . Last year he pitched 11 innings. It is hard to say he gets shelled every time he comes up. He was very good in AAA in 06. Last year he was not quite as good but still way above average. Very few knuckleballers have MLB experience at 22 like he did. He may not be the next Clemens but he has a shot to be the next Wakefield which would make him easily the WS 3rd best starter.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In o6 he pitched 18 innings, allowed 12 hits and had an era of 3.46 . Last year he pitched 11 innings. It is hard to say he gets shelled every time he comes up. He was very good in AAA in 06. Last year he was not quite as good but still way above average. Very few knuckleballers have MLB experience at 22 like he did. He may not be the next Clemens but he has a shot to be the next Wakefield which would make him easily the WS 3rd best starter.

Gary Scott was the greatest AAA player of all time for the Cubs. Along with Angel Guzman.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Verlander is by far the best starter on either staff, hell he is the best starter on the majority of teams staffs. But after that the Tigers pitching is ugly. Rogers is old and injury prone and it is unlikely he will rebound beyond slightly below average pitcher at his best. Willis has slumped badly from his 2005 peak when he was outstanding. Though Baseball prospectus seems to feel that the Marlins defense was so bad that it cost him 1/2 run in era, he would still be in the 4.60 area with some other stats that are concerning. His Whip has gone from 1.13 (which is excellent) to 1.60 (which is not). He only allowed 213 hits in 236 innings in 2005 while last year he allowed 241 in 205 innings. His walks have also jumped from 55 in 05 to 87 last year despite the 31 fewer innings. His HR's allowed has also skyrocketed from 11 to 29. Playing with a better defense and in more of a pitchers park may help but there is also the fact that he isnt in the NL anymore and has DH's to contend with also. Nate Robertson is an average pitcher at best. Bonderman is potentially a pretty good pitcher who was excellent in 2006 but was not in 07 and wound up being shutdown late in the season due to a balky elbow. He along with Rogers and Robertson all missed time last year and are injury risks this year also. There is simply nothing else for starters. The bullpen is also a bit shaky and not particularly healthy. Todd Jones is easily the worst closer on an AL contender if not for Joe Borowoski. Fernando Rodney is always hurt (and is again), Zumaya has had 2 major injuries since his great 2006 and is not expected till late May at the earliest. There simply isnt much though Seay is a pretty good lefty only guy. The Tigers made a big splash in improving their lineup but they will need to score lots of runs because they arent going to hold anybody down on days that Verlander doesnt start.

The White Sox made some interesting moves in regards to shoring up the bullpen. Jenks is an elite closer who was lights out last year. Ehren Wasserman was effective in his big league debut last year and the addition of Scott Linebrink and a healthy Dotel gives them the advantage over the Tigers in the pen. I initially thought the Sox signing of Buehrle longterm was a mistake but I was probably wrong. He is what he is, a better than average innings eater who battles and when he keeps the ball down is effective. Vasquez was very good last year. Contreras was shaky last season as he gave up lots more hits than his par. He may have been a little unlucky as his BABIP (batting average balls in play) was an unusually high .335 but he is 57 years old now and supposedly is losing velocity which is a big problem for him. (p.s. -Scavs you finally made a good bet)
Danks is a question mark. He looked good early but faded badly. He is a fly ball pitcher which is a bad fit for the Cell unless you have biting stuff like Vasquez. Danks gave up 28 HR's in 139 innings which is not encouraging. Floyd is a potential average 4th starter. Charlie Haeger is an interesting knuckleballer that may get a shot. He may be the next tim Wakefield which doesn't sound exciting until you see how effective Wakefield has been for so long.

I have to give the overall edge to the Sox simply because the bullpen is a much better bet to succeed. If Willis regains his form, Rogers turns back the clock again, and Bonderman fufills his promise I would give them the edge in starters over the Sox but I doubt that will happen. Alot depends (as it always does) on injuries as neither team has much depth in the rotation and will be plugging in very weak replacements. Plus both teams traded away depth in the minors and dont have very many chips to trade in at the deadline.

VA bred

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Verlander is by far the best starter on either staff, hell he is the best starter on the majority of teams staffs. But after that the Tigers pitching is ugly. Rogers is old and injury prone and it is unlikely he will rebound beyond slightly below average pitcher at his best. Willis has slumped badly from his 2005 peak when he was outstanding. Though Baseball prospectus seems to feel that the Marlins defense was so bad that it cost him 1/2 run in era, he would still be in the 4.60 area with some other stats that are concerning. His Whip has gone from 1.13 (which is excellent) to 1.60 (which is not). He only allowed 213 hits in 236 innings in 2005 while last year he allowed 241 in 205 innings. His walks have also jumped from 55 in 05 to 87 last year despite the 31 fewer innings. His HR's allowed has also skyrocketed from 11 to 29. Playing with a better defense and in more of a pitchers park may help but there is also the fact that he isnt in the NL anymore and has DH's to contend with also. Nate Robertson is an average pitcher at best. Bonderman is potentially a pretty good pitcher who was excellent in 2006 but was not in 07 and wound up being shutdown late in the season due to a balky elbow. He along with Rogers and Robertson all missed time last year and are injury risks this year also. There is simply nothing else for starters. The bullpen is also a bit shaky and not particularly healthy. Todd Jones is easily the worst closer on an AL contender if not for Joe Borowoski. Fernando Rodney is always hurt (and is again), Zumaya has had 2 major injuries since his great 2006 and is not expected till late May at the earliest. There simply isnt much though Seay is a pretty good lefty only guy. The Tigers made a big splash in improving their lineup but they will need to score lots of runs because they arent going to hold anybody down on days that Verlander doesnt start.

The White Sox made some interesting moves in regards to shoring up the bullpen. Jenks is an elite closer who was lights out last year. Ehren Wasserman was effective in his big league debut last year and the addition of Scott Linebrink and a healthy Dotel gives them the advantage over the Tigers in the pen. I initially thought the Sox signing of Buehrle longterm was a mistake but I was probably wrong. He is what he is, a better than average innings eater who battles and when he keeps the ball down is effective. Vasquez was very good last year. Contreras was shaky last season as he gave up lots more hits than his par. He may have been a little unlucky as his BABIP (batting average balls in play) was an unusually high .335 but he is 57 years old now and supposedly is losing velocity which is a big problem for him. (p.s. -Scavs you finally made a good bet)Danks is a question mark. He looked good early but faded badly. He is a fly ball pitcher which is a bad fit for the Cell unless you have biting stuff like Vasquez. Danks gave up 28 HR's in 139 innings which is not encouraging. Floyd is a potential average 4th starter. Charlie Haeger is an interesting knuckleballer that may get a shot. He may be the next tim Wakefield which doesn't sound exciting until you see how effective Wakefield has been for so long.

I have to give the overall edge to the Sox simply because the bullpen is a much better bet to succeed. If Willis regains his form, Rogers turns back the clock again, and Bonderman fufills his promise I would give them the edge in starters over the Sox but I doubt that will happen. Alot depends (as it always does) on injuries as neither team has much depth in the rotation and will be plugging in very weak replacements. Plus both teams traded away depth in the minors and dont have very many chips to trade in at the deadline.

That's all you could come up with?..lol

OK..If the bet was if Jose was going to win 15 or not, then I'd say it was a good bet for Scavs. I think the key to his success is throwing strikes and especially throwing the splitter for strikes. His velocity, or lack of, gets him in trouble when he's wild. Plus..he loses focus easily and that divorce he went through LY really affected him. Now he's free to pick up two hotties on the road whenever he wants ( which I saw him do in Baltimore and they were outstanding I might add) and stay focused on the mound. Barring a freak injury, I think he easily makes it to August and will have a very good year.

But..we shall see..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

That's all you could come up with?..lol

OK..If the bet was if Jose was going to win 15 or not, then I'd say it was a good bet for Scavs. I think the key to his success is throwing strikes and especially throwing the splitter for strikes. His velocity, or lack of, gets him in trouble when he's wild. Plus..he loses focus easily and that divorce he went through LY really affected him. Now he's free to pick up two hotties on the road whenever he wants ( which I saw him do in Baltimore and they were outstanding I might add) and stay focused on the mound. Barring a freak injury, I think he easily makes it to August and will have a very good year.

But..we shall see..

I guess misunderstood the bet. I thought that he had to win 15 which is pretty shaky.

[Scav]

I don't even know the bet, all I know is I get to eat some garlic Parmeasan wings, most likely EITHER WAY

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

Gary Scott was the greatest AAA player of all time for the Cubs. Along with Angel Guzman.

Guzman has always been hurt. There is no evidence to suggest that Gary Scott was ever a good baseball player. He was a poor hitter at any league above AA. He was not a good AAA hetter with no power or patience (not many walks). Only a blind person or the Cubs thought he was any good...ever.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

I don't even know the bet, all I know is I get to eat some garlic Parmeasan wings, most likely EITHER WAY

Who is Joanna?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Guzman has always been hurt. There is no evidence to suggest that Gary Scott was ever a good baseball player. He was a poor hitter at any league above AA. He was not a good AAA hetter with no power or patience (not many walks). Only a blind person or the Cubs thought he was any good...ever.

On a side Cubs note, there is talk of them playing half a season at the Cell if they remodel Wriggles...Can't wait to see the preppies at 35th and the Dan Ryan looking for The Cubby Bear South