Hypthetical Derby--1970-2006

#1 07-19-2006, 03:58 PM

Well I guess we might as well do a 36 year race.

Take the form from the horse's 3 year season for the months of May and June. Everyone carries 126 lbs (interesting). And each horse is 100% healthy.

Here are the entries:

Secretariat
Affirmed
Spectacular Bid
Riva Ridge
Barbaro
Seattle Slew
Gato Del Sol
Sunday Silence
Silver Charm
Strike The Gold
Foolish Pleasure
Monarchos
Bold Forbes
Sunny's Halo
Swale
Spend A Buck
Ferdinand
Alysheba
Unbridled
Thunder Gulch

#2 07-19-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well I guess we might as well do a 36 year race.

Take the form from the horse's 3 year season for the months of May and June. Everyone carries 126 lbs (interesting). And each horse is 100% healthy.

Here are the entries:

Secretariat
Affirmed
Spectacular Bid
Riva Ridge
Barbaro
Seattle Slew
Gato Del Sol
Sunday Silence
Silver Charm
Strike The Gold
Foolish Pleasure
Monarchos
Bold Forbes
Sunny's Halo
Swale
Spend A Buck
Ferdinand
Alysheba
Unbridled
Thunder Gulch

Where's Smarty Jones? And why not? Are Gato Del Sol, Strike The Gold, Monarchos, and Sunny's Halo all more deserving?

You're gonna make a lotta folks mad ... unless it was just an oversight.

somerfrost · #3 07-19-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Where's Smarty Jones? And why not? Are Gato Del Sol, Strike The Gold, Monarchos, and Sunny's Halo all more deserving?

You're gonna make a lotta folks mad ... unless it was just an oversight.

Well...Secretariat is obviously the winner, but where oh where is his great son, Risen Star??

somerfrost · #4 07-19-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well...Secretariat is obviously the winner, but where oh where is his great son, Risen Star??

And I don't see Sham!!

GenuineRisk · #5 07-19-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Well...Secretariat is obviously the winner, but where oh where is his great son, Risen Star??

You don't think the Bid would give him a run for his money?

#6 07-19-2006, 05:43 PM

Well no horse that didnt win the Derby is on the list. You have to at least win the Derby to be in this field IMO. No fillies and I tried to find the best performances for this field. Smarty's time of 2:04:06 coupled with a less than stellar field kept him off the list.

#7 07-19-2006, 05:47 PM

The only horse I would add would be Funny Cide. His 2:01:19 is impressive. Plus he beat Empire Maker and Peace Rules. However, that track was lightning that day and I think his preformance isnt as good as the horses above. If anything I would remove Strike The Gold and put Funny Cide in there. But

slotdirt · #8 07-19-2006, 05:50 PM

Freaking Pleasant Colony and Real Quiet should absolutely be on that list, especially over Thunder Gulch.

#9 07-19-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Freaking Pleasant Colony and Real Quiet should absolutely be on that list, especially over Thunder Gulch.

Well Thunder Gulch won in 2:01 1/5. He also beat a better field IMO than either of those two. Pleasent Colony was my 2nd choice to have behind Funny Cide. But PC ran a 2:02 against a crappy field.

slotdirt · #10 07-19-2006, 05:57 PM

So you're using raw times to determine who deserves to be in this mythical field? That makes sense.

#11 07-19-2006, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

So you're using raw times to determine who deserves to be in this mythical field? That makes sense.

Not just raw times. Times is just a factor. I am also considering the way they won, how tough the field was. I went back and watched each race. And I thought these 20 were the most deserving.

miraja2 · #12 07-19-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Well no horse that didnt win the Derby is on the list. You have to at least win the Derby to be in this field IMO. No fillies and I tried to find the best performances for this field. Smarty's time of 2:04:06 coupled with a less than stellar field kept him off the list.

I don't me to be insulting, but I think this is not a very good list. The original deal was supposed to be May and June of their 3yo season. You used ONLY the Derby to make your list. Who cares if Smarty's time was slow? He was running in a swamp!!
Risen Star is so much more qualified than Strike the Gold that it boggles the mind.
Easy Goer CLEARLY belongs over Gato Del Sol. The list goes on and on. I think you had better factor in Preakness and Belmont results if you want to talk about May and June.

#13 07-19-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

I don't me to be insulting, but I think this is not a very good list. The original deal was supposed to be May and June of their 3yo season. You used ONLY the Derby to make your list. Who cares if Smarty's time was slow? He was running in a swamp!!
Risen Star is so much more qualified than Strike the Gold that it boggles the mind.
Easy Goer CLEARLY belongs over Gato Del Sol. The list goes on and on. I think you had better factor in Preakness and Belmont results if you want to talk about May and June.

Maybe so, but a Derby win trumps any other race since it is the hardest to win.

miraja2 · #14 07-19-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Maybe so, but a Derby win trumps any other race since it is the hardest to win.

It may be the most important, but I just can't take the list seriously when it does not include a horse like Risen Star but includes some one-race wonders.
I would say that overall in May and June of '91, Hansel was better than Strike the Gold, but I would not include EITHER of those on the list.
Smarty Jones DID win the Derby, and he went on to DOMINATE the Preakness and finish second in the Belmont. How was his TC season not better than Strike the Gold's?

zippyneedsawin · #15 07-19-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

It may be the most important, but I just can't take the list seriously when it does not include a horse like Risen Star but includes some one-race wonders.
I would say that overall in May and June of '91, Hansel was better than Strike the Gold, but I would not include EITHER of those on the list.
Smarty Jones DID win the Derby, and he went on to DOMINATE the Preakness and finish second in the Belmont. How was his TC season not better than Strike the Gold's?

I agree.. The best horse doesn't always in the Derby.. I think Little Current should be in the starting gate!

dalakhani · #16 07-19-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Where's Smarty Jones? And why not? Are Gato Del Sol, Strike The Gold, Monarchos, and Sunny's Halo all more deserving?

You're gonna make a lotta folks mad ... unless it was just an oversight.

Strike the gold and no fusaichi pegasus?

Byebyemermaid · #17 07-19-2006, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

I agree.. The best horse doesn't always in the Derby.. I think Little Current should be in the starting gate!

Agree completely.little deserves to be on that list.he might not of been as good as Secretariat and Spectacular Bid,but if not for a horrendous trip in the derby he quite possibly would have been a triple crown winner.

#18 07-19-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Freaking Pleasant Colony and Real Quiet should absolutely be on that list, especially over Thunder Gulch.

Absolutely on Pleasant Colony ... and yes on Real Quiet.

And ... where is Canonero?

All three are far better than Gato Del Sol, Sunny's Halo, and Strike The Gold.

#19 07-19-2006, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byebyemermaid

Agree completely.little deserves to be on that list.he might not of been as good as Secretariat and Spectacular Bid,but if not for a horrendous trip in the derby he quite possibly would have been a triple crown winner.

Little Current is not on the list because he did not win the Kentucky Derby.

The list consists of Kentucky Derby WINNERS only.

#20 07-19-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Maybe so, but a Derby win trumps any other race since it is the hardest to win.

I agree with your including only Kentucky Derby winners ... but not for that reason.

Having winners-only makes compiling the list much simpler ... maybe ... because look at all the arguments that even winners-only generates.