Watchmaker: Big Brown a long way from Big Red

ceejay · #1 06-02-2008, 09:04 PM

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125

Quote:

Big Brown has been scrutinized for beating up on fields of dubious quality. Of course, the fact that there hasn't been anyone around to date to really test him is not his fault. That said, it would take a good imagination to picture Big Brown coming remotely close to emulating what Secretariat did in the Marlboro Cup. Secretariat not only won the Marlboro Cup in world-record time, he did so with arrogant ease over a field that included two Hall of Famers, Riva Ridge and Cougar II; Canadian Horse of the Year Kennedy Road; and champion Key to the Mint.

As much of an accomplishment as it would be for Big Brown to win Saturday, he could race 100 more times and never do what Secretariat did in his Belmont: He established the reference point by which all modern racehorses are measured.

So if Big Brown wins Saturday, compare away. I will, too, because the rich history of this sport requires such achievements be placed in historical context. Just when you get to Secretariat, be careful. Be very, very careful.

Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

Cannon Shell · #2 06-02-2008, 09:33 PM

It is like writing that Eli Manning isn't as good as Joe montana....no kidding.

Hickory Hill Hoff · #3 06-02-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125

Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

If he wins on Saturday and then never races again, the point is moot. He'll be a Triple Crown winner that never raced vs. older or again....thus, a very, very good horse.....but great???????????

freddymo · #4 06-02-2008, 09:42 PM

Take Secretariat's first 6 races and compare them to Big Brown's first six and then do comparsions. I am no lover of Big Brown but the jury is still out. Time will tell if permitted?

Cannon Shell · #5 06-02-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

Take Secretariat's first 6 races and compare them to Big Brown's first six and then do comparsions. I am no lover of Big Brown but the jury is still out. Time will tell if permitted?

I think we are still running against 2 yo's...

RolloTomasi · #6 06-02-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125

Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

Just for argument's sake, as far as the field goes at the time of the Marlboro Cup:

Key To The Mint was probably toast well before the race. He hadn't started in a couple of months and failed to establish his customary stalking position winding up last by many. He started 12 days later on turf and got trounced and was never heard from again. To say he was in good form at the time would have been dubious.

Kennedy Road and Riva Ridge dueled through ridiculous fractions and probably burned each other up. Cougar, a 7yo making his 48th career start off a brief layoff, was arguably a better grass horse than he was on the main track.

In addition, flanking this race was Secretariat's two monumental defeats in the Whitney and Woodward. To present it as though his Marlboro Cup was the definitive moment in Secretariat's career that somehow validated his greatness above all other Thoroughbred's is as ridiculous as having After Market at the top of your Turf Division leader board for 2008, even though he was retired in 2007...

freddymo · #7 06-02-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I think we are still running against 2 yo's...

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

hockey2315 · #8 06-02-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

Really?

justindew · #9 06-02-2008, 10:24 PM

I'm sick of people comparing every "now horse" to Secretariat.

It's like Liam Gallagher said when asked if Be Here Now was better than Definitely Maybe: "F**k Definitely Maybe. It's over."

Personally, I think Be Here Now is Oasis' best album. And the readers of Rolling Stone named it Album of the Year in 1997. Although Noel Gallagher thinks it's garbage.

geeker2 · #10 06-02-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddymo

My point is its unfair to compare the two and only an idiot or Frank Lyons could suggest that Big Brown is better. I do think it's possible Big Brown could be better but it would take a 4 year old campaign not to mention the Travers, JGCC,and Breeders cup to determine. Will never know but the possiblity exists however remote.

Isn't Frank Lyons employed somehow by IEAH ?

freddymo · #11 06-02-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Really?

Possible but completely unlikely.. Seriously the horse has been pretty darn impressive. Granted he has beat swill. It is possible like it or not it's possible. I really hope the horse runs in the Travers Gold Cup and Classic and gets challenged by Curlin. I am know huge Curlin guy but apparently he is the only current threat

freddymo · #12 06-02-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeker2

Isn't Frank Lyons employed somehow by IEAH ?

Yes imagine that

RolloTomasi · #13 06-02-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

I'm sick of people comparing every "now horse" to Secretariat.

Yes...instead, let's talk about Oasis...

Quote:

It's like Liam Gallagher said when asked if Be Here Now was better than Definitely Maybe: "F**k Definitely Maybe. It's over."

Actually, isn't that more like comparing Big Brown's Derby to Big Brown's Preakness? Or Secretariat's Belmont to his Canadian International?

Wouldn't it be more like comparing Oasis's "Definitely Maybe" to the Beatles's "White Album"?

Quote:

Personally, I think Be Here Now is Oasis' best album. And the readers of Rolling Stone named it Album of the Year in 1997. Although Noel Gallagher thinks it's garbage.

On a more relevant note, who would survive being double-barreled by either Big Brown or Secretariat, Noel Gallagher or Ian Brown?

I say Ian Brown. He knows karate and can speak Spanish (which given the nationality of most backstretch grooms, might be soothing to an angry horse)...

#14 06-02-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceejay

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=95125

Time may prove him wrong, but I think Watchmaker nailed it with his current column

herkhorse · #15 06-02-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

I'm sick of people comparing every "now horse" to Secretariat.

It's like Liam Gallagher said when asked if Be Here Now was better than Definitely Maybe: "F**k Definitely Maybe. It's over."

Personally, I think Be Here Now is Oasis' best album. And the readers of Rolling Stone named it Album of the Year in 1997. Although Noel Gallagher thinks it's garbage.

Wow, Oasis. We need a throw-up smilie.

VOL JACK · #16 06-02-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

I'm sick of people comparing every "now horse" to Secretariat.

It's like Liam Gallagher said when asked if Be Here Now was better than Definitely Maybe: "F**k Definitely Maybe. It's over."

Personally, I think Be Here Now is Oasis' best album. And the readers of Rolling Stone named it Album of the Year in 1997. Although Noel Gallagher thinks it's garbage.

You really shouldve brainstormed just a little longer for a comparision.

justindew · #17 06-03-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOL JACK

You really shouldve brainstormed just a little longer for a comparision.

Or, maybe the nature of my comparison is perfect considering the ridiculousness of this entire discussion.

Bobby Fischer · #18 06-03-2008, 12:10 AM

if Secretariat ran his belmont in today's game he wouldn't have set the record. He would be well held until the turn and win by 10 or 15.

justindew · #19 06-03-2008, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Wouldn't it be more like comparing Oasis's "Definitely Maybe" to the Beatles's "White Album"?

Hard to do. Music was so different then. But did you know that Definitely Maybe is still the fastest selling debut album in the history of Britain?

RolloTomasi · #20 06-03-2008, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

Hard to do. Music was so different then. But did you know that Definitely Maybe is still the fastest selling debut album in the history of Britain?

I believe it. Not only is the situation figuratively similar to flies on dogsh!t, but there might actually be a literal connection there, too.