Best race in Delaware Park history???

[Indian Charlie]

First a disclaimer for people who haven't figured out yet that I'm probably the biggest fan of Indian Charlie (the horse version) in the world. I follow his progeny fairly closely.

That out of the way, two of the very impressive recent maiden filly winners he's had, Puskita and Indian Way, somehow ended up in the same race at Delaware Park on the 23rd.

Indian Way's debut was at SA back in April. She hopped at the start and was off real slow. She was about ten back early on and then went seven wide while rallying up for third.

She made her next start about a month later and got away cleanly. She was up near the lead and drew off as they turned for home for an easy five length win in about 114.3, over a ridiculously fast track.

I don't expect this one to be around very long as she's trained by Harty.

Puskita debuted May 25th at Pimlico off of only two published works. In what I felt was a stunning debut, she pressed just off the pace and drew off to win by 15 in 110.3, over a pretty slow track. She only got a 96 BSF for that performance, but man, she looked like a freight train coming down the lane!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Nice PG'85 Giants Causeway impersonation.

It's a loaded 55K stake anyway - Sweet Hope is back on dirt and in there. Puskita and Indian Way are obviously both very talented and will be the two to beat.

I expect a few scratches for sure.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Nice PG'85 Giants Causeway impersonation.

It's a loaded 55K stake anyway - Sweet Hope is back on dirt and in there. Puskita and Indian Way are obviously both very talented and will be the two to beat.

I expect a few scratches for sure.

Nice try dude. I am impervious to being baited by the likes of you!

There are though a couple of interesting horses in that race besides the two I mentioned. Pretty damn strong for a 55k 6f 3yo filly race at Delaware Park.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Nice PG'85 Giants Causeway impersonation.

It's a loaded 55K stake anyway - Sweet Hope is back on dirt and in there. Puskita and Indian Way are obviously both very talented and will be the two to beat.

I expect a few scratches for sure.

Lion Heart dude?

[jcs11204]

giants causeway and indian charlie are not in the same league

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

giants causeway and indian charlie are not in the same league

That's an understatement.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

That's an understatement.

i am glad we agree....
giant is going to be a sire of all sires...
storm cat already is.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i am glad we agree....
giant is going to be a sire of all sires...
storm cat already is.

I'm glad you think we agree.

Facts do not support your position however. If you look at the quality of mares both horses have been bred to, it really is no contest who the better stallion is. Considering that about 90% of the mares bred to Indian Charlie (in the first five years) were either unraced or never won a race, what he's accomplished at stud so far is beyond amazing.

There are only a few stallions in this country that move up their mares the way he does.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i am glad we agree....
giant is going to be a sire of all sires...
storm cat already is.

One other thing I disagree with. I don't think Storm Cat is the sire of sires that you and a lot of others think he is.

He's had a few nice sires, like GC and Stormy Atlantic, but what other top notch sires has he gotten?

I certainly wouldn't rate him as the next Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or even Gone West.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

One other thing I disagree with. I don't think Storm Cat is the sire of sires that you and a lot of others think he is.

He's had a few nice sires, like GC and Stormy Atlantic, but what other top notch sires has he gotten?

I certainly wouldn't rate him as the next Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or even Gone West.

he was a bust as a sire of sires til the giant came along. thing is, giant's causeway's fee is huge, so you have to consider the ROI with him, as compared to a horse like indian charlie. having a giants baby not sell would be a lot bigger loss to swallow than an IC for instance...

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

One other thing I disagree with. I don't think Storm Cat is the sire of sires that you and a lot of others think he is.

He's had a few nice sires, like GC and Stormy Atlantic, but what other top notch sires has he gotten?

I certainly wouldn't rate him as the next Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or even Gone West.

Forestry, Hennessy, Tale of the Cat, Forest Wildcat, Harlan, Catienus, Exploit, Yankee Gentleman, Freud, Pure Prize...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by philcski

Forestry, Hennessy, Tale of the Cat, Forest Wildcat, Harlan, Catienus, Exploit, Yankee Gentleman, Freud, Pure Prize...

Forestry? LOL. True, his get sell well, but cmon, he sucks.

Especially at 125k or so.

Forest Wildcat is moderate at best.

Hennessy is one I forgot about. He did okay here and there.

TOTC gets a decent runner now and then, but mostly they are pretty frail and don't amount to much.

Harlan was good, but short lived.


Catienus is solid, considering his start at stud (wasn't he in NY?).

I'll take a pass on Freud and Exploit. Yankee Gentleman got off to a nice start and Pure Prize has had a couple of good runners.

I just don't see that as a tremendous roster for a supposed sire of sires.

Would you like a partial list from Northern Dancer, Mr. P., or even Raise a Native?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he was a bust as a sire of sires til the giant came along. thing is, giant's causeway's fee is huge, so you have to consider the ROI with him, as compared to a horse like indian charlie. having a giants baby not sell would be a lot bigger loss to swallow than an IC for instance...

giants causeway has the potential to be one of the best sires ever, i have been saying that for years...

as for him on the track, well listen, ppl on this site say curlin would get destroyed in the ARC, so what does that say about the giant, he came here first time on dirt vs americas best, and almost got it done.... he is very underated as a race horse and sire.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Forestry? LOL. True, his get sell well, but cmon, he sucks.

Especially at 125k or so.

Forest Wildcat is moderate at best.

Hennessy is one I forgot about. He did okay here and there.

TOTC gets a decent runner now and then, but mostly they are pretty frail and don't amount to much.

Harlan was good, but short lived.


Catienus is solid, considering his start at stud (wasn't he in NY?).

I'll take a pass on Freud and Exploit. Yankee Gentleman got off to a nice start and Pure Prize has had a couple of good runners.

I just don't see that as a tremendous roster for a supposed sire of sires.

Would you like a partial list from Northern Dancer, Mr. P., or even Raise a Native?

Isn't it a little unfair to compare Storm Cat to Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or Raise A Native?

I'm no pedigree expert but I don't see how that's a fair comparison.

NT

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Forestry? LOL. True, his get sell well, but cmon, he sucks.

Especially at 125k or so.

Forest Wildcat is moderate at best.

Hennessy is one I forgot about. He did okay here and there.

TOTC gets a decent runner now and then, but mostly they are pretty frail and don't amount to much.

Harlan was good, but short lived.


Catienus is solid, considering his start at stud (wasn't he in NY?).

I'll take a pass on Freud and Exploit. Yankee Gentleman got off to a nice start and Pure Prize has had a couple of good runners.

I just don't see that as a tremendous roster for a supposed sire of sires.

Would you like a partial list from Northern Dancer, Mr. P., or even Raise a Native?

Just so you know, I HATE Forestry, and think Storm Cat was supremely overrated, but you were looking for decent sires he's had, so I gave you a list.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

giants causeway has the potential to be one of the best sires ever, i have been saying that for years...

Not if he stays in the United States. His stud fee has steadily dropped over the past few years, and if he doesn't produce a "big horse" on the dirt soon, he'll be viewed as simply a turf sire.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Not if he stays in the United States. His stud fee has steadily dropped over the past few years, and if he doesn't produce a "big horse" on the dirt soon, he'll be viewed as simply a turf sire.

heatseeker
first samurai

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What is your weird thing with Giants Causeway? How did it start?

just consider my point about him as a race horse not a sire, ppl on this website say curlin will get crushed in the ARC, but dident giant causeway do the same thing, he came here for are best race, and just missed

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What is your weird thing with Giants Causeway? How did it start?

it started in the breeders cup, i just had a feelings, i boxed him and tiznow, pretty big bet, and hit it.... then i looked up on him, watched his races and realized he was a amazing horse, with a amazing pedigree

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

it started in the breeders cup, i just had a feelings, i boxed him and tiznow, pretty big bet, and hit it.... then i looked up on him, watched his races and realized he was a amazing horse, with a amazing pedigree

you'd be better off cheering for tiznow, he's turning out to be quite a sire, without the price tag.

and they asked for dirt horses, heatseeker is a dirt horse? besides, if that's the best/all he can produce at his price, he needs to go back to the uk.