3 year old filly Eclipse?

Betsy · #1 09-20-2008, 04:42 PM

Apparently, Proud Spell has finished 2nd in the Cotillion (found this out on another board).......by 3 lengths to Seattle Smooth. I know Larry Jones has been snippy and adament that his filly has/had a lock on the award, although I didn't necessarily agree with him. Didn't Flute win the KY Oaks and the Alabama and still not get the award?

I'm hoping that PS's defeat will enhance MN's chances of winning the Eclipse; does she have a shot at it if she runs well/decently (who knows how she will handle the synthetic track at SA) in the BC?

Thanks!

hockey2315 · #2 09-20-2008, 05:08 PM

She probably has to win. . .

ateamstupid · #3 09-20-2008, 05:31 PM

Why not Indian Blessing?

hockey2315 · #4 09-20-2008, 05:32 PM

I agree that she deserves to be considered. . .

Betsy · #5 09-20-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

She probably has to win. . .

Why would MN have to win? She's 1-1 in a head to head match up and this was a bad loss for PS in the sense that it was a pretty terrible field. MN had to be penalized for her loss to PS, so PS definitely needs to be penalized for this loss.

I just can not see giving the title to Indian Blessing. I didn't even agree with Xtra Heat, but none of the 3 year old fillies that year did enough to secure the award. IB is up against two very good fillies in PS and Music Note that have done a lot this year. She'll very likely win the BC Distaff Sprint (or whatever it is it's called) and get the championship for female sprinter, which she would deserve.

ateamstupid · #6 09-20-2008, 06:59 PM

Indian Blessing's only losses this year are to Proud Spell and Zaftig, and she beat the former once. If she wins the BC F&M Sprint and neither Music Note nor Proud Spell win the Distaff, why shouldn't she be considered?

hockey2315 · #7 09-20-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Why would MN have to win? She's 1-1 in a head to head match up and this was a bad loss for PS in the sense that it was a pretty terrible field. MN had to be penalized for her loss to PS, so PS definitely needs to be penalized for this loss.

I just can not see giving the title to Indian Blessing. I didn't even agree with Xtra Heat, but none of the 3 year old fillies that year did enough to secure the award. IB is up against two very good fillies in PS and Music Note that have done a lot this year. She'll very likely win the BC Distaff Sprint (or whatever it is it's called) and get the championship for female sprinter, which she would deserve.

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

RolloTomasi · #8 09-20-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Why would MN have to win? She's 1-1 in a head to head match up and this was a bad loss for PS in the sense that it was a pretty terrible field. MN had to be penalized for her loss to PS, so PS definitely needs to be penalized for this loss.

My post on the Cotillion thread notwithstanding, in retrospect it wasn't a complete mismatch on speed figures. Seattle Smooth absolutely crushed last out (first time for Tony Dutrow--go figure) at Delaware. In fact, her Beyer for that race was higher than Music Note's for the Gazelle. Maybe a new contender has emerged.

Proud Spell obvious has the better resume, going off of both races won and horses defeated. The thing that both fillies are missing, and that Music Note perhaps is in better position to achieve, is a win against older horses. In that respect, all either has to do really is place in the Distaff, or worst case, finish in front of the other in the race.

RolloTomasi · #9 09-20-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

I think that's how Farda Amiga won the Eclipse in 2002.

hockey2315 · #10 09-20-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think that's how Farda Amiga won the Eclipse in 2002.

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

RolloTomasi · #11 09-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

hockey2315 · #12 09-20-2008, 08:54 PM

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

RolloTomasi · #13 09-20-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

Yes.

hockey2315 · #14 09-20-2008, 09:28 PM

Why exactly?

RolloTomasi · #15 09-20-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Why exactly?

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

blackthroatedwind · #16 09-20-2008, 09:47 PM

Just curious.....what would your position be on these same two horses ( Proud Spell and Music Note ) if Proud Spell was an AP Indy and Music Note was a Proud Citizen?

hockey2315 · #17 09-20-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

What about Wait a While in '06? And your Big Brown analogy isn't analogous. . .

#18 09-20-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Why not Indian Blessing?

really why not, shes a freak...

zippyneedsawin · #19 09-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?
Proud Spell is still the front runner for this, unless Music Note wins the Ladies Classic... or both lose and Indian Blessing wins her race (she has to be considered as well, IMO)

RolloTomasi · #20 09-20-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What about Wait a While in '06? And your Big Brown analogy isn't analogous. . .

You talk about the 2002 crop being bad, how about the 2006 group? Lemons Forever, Bushfire, Pine Island? Personally either of the last two would have been acceptable since they won multiple Grade 1s (Smuggler won the award for Christ's sake)...

I don't think either Proud Spell, Music Note, or Eight Belles are mere ham sandwiches in this instance. The voters don't really have to look beyond the obvious races to find a suitable champion.

Since they've set up a female sprint division, Indian Blessing has become a specialist the way Xtra Heat was. She'll probably get her championship so long as she doesn't get tagged late by Intangaroo in the BC.