Madoff & the Ponzi

[Stall Mucker]

Part of this hits home in Saratoga. Stone Bridge Farms, both the training center and farm are up for sale. 9 billion lost in the ponzi scam.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

Part of this hits home in Saratoga. Stone Bridge Farms, both the training center and farm are up for sale. 9 billion lost in the ponzi scam.

Tucker was involved? I suppose the horses are for sale too?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Tucker was involved? I suppose the horses are for sale too?

Tucker and his partner are Fairfield Greenwich Group.. as big a facilitator to Madoff as was out there.

[Stall Mucker]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Tucker was involved? I suppose the horses are for sale too?

He was an investor. That's all I know.

[Stall Mucker]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Tucker and his partner are Fairfield Greenwich Group.. as big a facilitator to Madoff as was out there.

Sounds closer your way Steve. I don't have much detail.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

Sounds closer your way Steve. I don't have much detail.

Fairfield was passing on a huge portion of their investors' funds to Madoff. To the tune of $7B..

WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1229...googlenews_wsj

NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/17/bu...7hedge.html?em

[packerbacker7964]

People where in the Sam Hell are the regulators of these funds? Where's the audit's? I mean no one checks up on these Billion $$$ funds? Lot's of banks in England are going dwon in a blaze of glory over this also. What a way to get money outside of the USA to invest now after this fisaco.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

People where in the Sam Hell are the regulators of these funds? Where's the audit's? I mean no one checks up on these Billion $$$ funds? Lot's of banks in England are going dwon in a blaze of glory over this also. What a way to get money outside of the USA to invest now after this fisaco.

The tip off should have been the accounting firm that signed off on the books was a one room operation that could never had the staffing to handle an account of that size and scope. The SEC blew it. But foreign investors wont hesitate to invest in the US because of this. People with money are desperate to find any place where they wont continue to lose. Our economy is bad but overseas there are much worse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Stall Mucker

Part of this hits home in Saratoga. Stone Bridge Farms, both the training center and farm are up for sale. 9 billion lost in the ponzi scam.

That place is a really nice farm and training center but is too far away and too big to pay for itself commercially unless you rent stalls for $10000 a month per stall. Maybe we can raise the money and make it base for Dee Tee's northern operations?

[packerbacker7964]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The tip off should have been the accounting firm that signed off on the books was a one room operation that could never had the staffing to handle an account of that size and scope. The SEC blew it. But foreign investors wont hesitate to invest in the US because of this. People with money are desperate to find any place where they wont continue to lose. Our economy is bad but overseas there are much worse.

I hope your wrong because in my 401k I've got all international funds I'm one of only a few guys at work to that turned a profit on my 401k last year. Although it was a small one it still made money. With such large funds why don't they make more than one company in charge of tracking money?

[Stall Mucker]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The tip off should have been the accounting firm that signed off on the books was a one room operation that could never had the staffing to handle an account of that size and scope. The SEC blew it. But foreign investors wont hesitate to invest in the US because of this. People with money are desperate to find any place where they wont continue to lose. Our economy is bad but overseas there are much worse.

Hey Honey. I lost 9 billion today. You'll have to start shopin at Wal-Mart. Talbots is out. Buy cheap Spanks and other pricey undergarments elsewhere.

[ELA]

I wasn't going to throw my hat in the ring on this discussion, for a variety of reasons, and I won't go into specifics either.

However, people truly need to understand, and not collapse, hedge funds -- and there are innumerable different types, structures, etc. -- and other non-traditional investments (private equity, AI, PIF's and/or partnerships, etc.).

First, many hedge funds have a perceived advantage in that they allegedly cross the borders of numerous styles, definitions, investment vehicles, etc. What is CRUCIAL to understand is that some aspects of their activities are very well regulated and others are not. More still, others are semi-regulated or give the appearence of being regulated, yet the reality is very different from the perception.

Second, while the normal "hedge fund" does fall within the the statutory definition of an investment company (a typical investment company must be registered with the SEC and thus becomes subject to the regulation, governance, and oversight of the SEC), there is a very different aspect to the hedge fund world. Most have a qualifying door to enter, are privately held and private in nature, and do to these and other aspects -- they are permitted to operate pursuant to exemptions from the registration process and requirements.

When you look at these hedge funds that operate under various expemtions, there of course is a trade-off. There is a presumption that hedge funds are investing in, implementing, etc. various strategies that are more risky -- which may or may not be true, depending on the details, specifics, and mission of the fund.

The hedge fund landscape was to change in Dec. 1, 2004. The SEC issued new regulations that required most hedge fund advisers to register with the SEC. I think the deadline was Feb. 1, 2006. But even these regulations allowed exemptions. However, this was an exercise in futility as the new legislation was challenged (in court) by a hedge fund manager. Ultimately, the US Court of Appeals (Washington DC) overturned it and the matter back to the SEC to be reviewed. I think the case site is Goldstein v The US SEC.

There is new proposed US regulation, but it remains to be seen where that will go.

In a similar fashion that we've seen with credit default swaps, consumer and commercial debt, credit markets, etc. -- it is very easy to blame after the fact. The fallout can be very severe. It's easy to think about the person worth several hundred million who lost, say, $50 million. However, what is overlooked is the nonprofit that had money there. The lack of regulation and the wild-west environment offered no protection and shifted all the risk to the unsuspecting.

Anyway, let's not get into trying cases here on the internet, LOL.

Eric

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That place is a really nice farm and training center but is too far away and too big to pay for itself commercially unless you rent stalls for $10000 a month per stall. Maybe we can raise the money and make it base for Dee Tee's northern operations?

I will volunteer to run the Dee Tee southern operations when you buy that farm in The Keys

[Linny]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

People where in the Sam Hell are the regulators of these funds? Where's the audit's? I mean no one checks up on these Billion $$$ funds? Lot's of banks in England are going dwon in a blaze of glory over this also. What a way to get money outside of the USA to invest now after this fisaco.

Madoff's neice (a well connected attorney) recently married a member of the board of the SEC. Hmmmm...

[ELA]

By the way, very often, when an event like this occurs, some of those who always rant and rave about everything tend to now have a captive audience, and the heretics can surface. Many use something like this as an opportunity. This is one of the reasons why many heretics call Social Security a Ponzi scheme.

Eric

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by ELA

I wasn't going to throw my hat in the ring on this discussion, for a variety of reasons, and I won't go into specifics either.

However, people truly need to understand, and not collapse, hedge funds -- and there are innumerable different types, structures, etc. -- and other non-traditional investments (private equity, AI, PIF's and/or partnerships, etc.).

First, many hedge funds have a perceived advantage in that they allegedly cross the borders of numerous styles, definitions, investment vehicles, etc. What is CRUCIAL to understand is that some aspects of their activities are very well regulated and others are not. More still, others are semi-regulated or give the appearence of being regulated, yet the reality is very different from the perception.

Second, while the normal "hedge fund" does fall within the the statutory definition of an investment company (a typical investment company must be registered with the SEC and thus becomes subject to the regulation, governance, and oversight of the SEC), there is a very different aspect to the hedge fund world. Most have a qualifying door to enter, are privately held and private in nature, and do to these and other aspects -- they are permitted to operate pursuant to exemptions from the registration process and requirements.

When you look at these hedge funds that operate under various expemtions, there of course is a trade-off. There is a presumption that hedge funds are investing in, implementing, etc. various strategies that are more risky -- which may or may not be true, depending on the details, specifics, and mission of the fund.

The hedge fund landscape was to change in Dec. 1, 2004. The SEC issued new regulations that required most hedge fund advisers to register with the SEC. I think the deadline was Feb. 1, 2006. But even these regulations allowed exemptions. However, this was an exercise in futility as the new legislation was challenged (in court) by a hedge fund manager. Ultimately, the US Court of Appeals (Washington DC) overturned it and the matter back to the SEC to be reviewed. I think the case site is Goldstein v The US SEC.

There is new proposed US regulation, but it remains to be seen where that will go.

In a similar fashion that we've seen with credit default swaps, consumer and commercial debt, credit markets, etc. -- it is very easy to blame after the fact. The fallout can be very severe. It's easy to think about the person worth several hundred million who lost, say, $50 million. However, what is overlooked is the nonprofit that had money there. The lack of regulation and the wild-west environment offered no protection and shifted all the risk to the unsuspecting.

Anyway, let's not get into trying cases here on the internet, LOL.

Eric

I read all of this and felt extremely victimized.

Nancy Grace, please come to my rescue and help put this bad man away.

[Indian Charlie]

Anyone that trusts the government to look out for our interests is badly deluded.

Clearly more stringent punishments are called for across the board.

I'm all for capital punishment for people who do such wanton acts of harm to the general good.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

such wanton acts of harm.

Ok Kaspet.

Nancy, also see to it that he gets 5-to-10 for using that word.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by packerbacker7964

I hope your wrong because in my 401k I've got all international funds I'm one of only a few guys at work to that turned a profit on my 401k last year. Although it was a small one it still made money. With such large funds why don't they make more than one company in charge of tracking money?

redboard alert...

[Holland Hacker]

As a CPA I wonder what the fall out from this will be on the profession.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/17/news...ion=2008121720

How can an individual be such a scumbag and down right liar, I know the answer is $$$$$$.