Imperial Council ?

dagulla · #1 01-26-2009, 11:08 PM

Any info about this horse would be great. It seems like Shug is really taking his time with this one, Does anyone know if there were any setbacks ?
Thanks in advance.

justindew · #2 01-27-2009, 07:50 AM

He's been working at Payson for the last month. Should debut soon.

Linny · #3 01-27-2009, 08:42 AM

Shug says he "had shins" after his maiden win. They are looking to possible early Feb return. He's been working 4f regularly. Not sure if he'll return short or long but he's bred to go long anyhow.

lemoncrush · #4 01-27-2009, 12:10 PM

I'm interested in seeing him run again, too.
With the long layoff, I would guess he'll show up in an allowance race soon, and if all goes well, point to the FOY or Tampa Bay Derby after that.

freddymo · #5 01-27-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

Shug says he "had shins" after his maiden win. They are looking to possible early Feb return. He's been working 4f regularly. Not sure if he'll return short or long but he's bred to go long anyhow.

Why is Shug even training the horse?

freddymo · #6 01-27-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

I'm interested in seeing him run again, too.
With the long layoff, I would guess he'll show up in an allowance race soon, and if all goes well, point to the FOY or Tampa Bay Derby after that.

How many TB Derby's has Shug started a colt in?

jinjin · #7 01-27-2009, 01:26 PM

Imperial Council's last work at Payson...1/22 4f in 50.60. I like this horse and am interested in seeing him run again. He has tactical speed unlike Shug's usual suspects that come from behind. He was green in his first race, which he should have won and showed a lot of heart trying to fight Hello Bway to the line. When he broke his maiden he was all business with blinkers added...just sat off the lead and took over when Prado asked him...Looked like a new horse and really professional.

Linny · #8 01-27-2009, 01:36 PM

I can't find the chart for his win, who owns Imperial Council? He was listed on Dan Illman's "Spa Babies" has having gone through the sales ring so I'm guessing he's not a Phipps horse.

jinjin · #9 01-27-2009, 01:43 PM

When last I checked Sequoia Racing... I thought McGaughey trained exclusively for Phipps and Janney... There must be a connection somehow.

Linny · #10 01-27-2009, 01:51 PM

http://www.sequoiaracing.com/
Thank you. I remember reading about them last fall. I had figured that Sequoia was the racing name of a Phipps family member but it looks like it's not.

NTamm1215 · #11 01-27-2009, 02:14 PM

I find it hilarious that Dunkirk has gotten absolutely slammed on this board but Imperial Council has been considered a "sleeper" for quite some time both here and with a number of "experts."

If Dunkirk capitalized on a terrific pace setup in his debut then what exactly did Imperial Council do when he broke his maiden in career start #2? They went pitifully slow to the half and considering Professor Z had a disastrous start and then made a woefully premature move, IC had EVERYTHING go his way. American Dance broke his maiden in his next start when he beat the mighty Aswaaq and was then drowned by Old Fashioned. Professor Z beat a horrible field of maidens on 11/1 at the Big A then beat an equally terrible N1X field on the inner. He was exposed at Oaklawn in an ungraded stake.

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

Linny · #12 01-27-2009, 02:39 PM

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

Dunkirk could turn out like Court Vision in a way. He kept winning and running visually impressive but s l o w races. When he was put to it, he came up short. (I refer to his early career on dirt, clearly he's better on grass.)

I have no issue with Shug. As a (primarily) private trainer, he's had minimal input into his stock. He gets what Phipps breeds. The Phipps' have developed many amazing "filly families" but the colts... well. Also, mares like Inside Information and Heavenly Prize who were monstresses on the track and beautifully bred have been less than stellar broodies for them. That's not Shug's fault. If you'd asked most bloodstock experts in 1997 or so what they thought the next decade looked like for Shug the'd have mentioned mares like those and others producing stellar runners. I have no idea why for several generations now those families have produced terrific fillies and dreadful colts.

freddymo · #13 01-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I find it hilarious that Dunkirk has gotten absolutely slammed on this board but Imperial Council has been considered a "sleeper" for quite some time both here and with a number of "experts."

If Dunkirk capitalized on a terrific pace setup in his debut then what exactly did Imperial Council do when he broke his maiden in career start #2? They went pitifully slow to the half and considering Professor Z had a disastrous start and then made a woefully premature move, IC had EVERYTHING go his way. American Dance broke his maiden in his next start when he beat the mighty Aswaaq and was then drowned by Old Fashioned. Professor Z beat a horrible field of maidens on 11/1 at the Big A then beat an equally terrible N1X field on the inner. He was exposed at Oaklawn in an ungraded stake.

I am admittedly not a Shug McGaughey fan and that has nothing to do with Shug as a man. His horses garner a ton of hype all the time, are consistently overbet, and almost as consistently underperform. I understand that he has done great things over the years, as Easy Goer and Lure were outstanding animals, but that was then and this is now.

NT

It's hard to play the game without drugs dont you think.. Shug's barn was very live in 08 and the girls have done qute well over the years..

freddymo · #14 01-27-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

Dunkirk could turn out like Court Vision in a way. He kept winning and running visually impressive but s l o w races. When he was put to it, he came up short. (I refer to his early career on dirt, clearly he's better on grass.)

I have no issue with Shug. As a (primarily) private trainer, he's had minimal input into his stock. He gets what Phipps breeds. The Phipps' have developed many amazing "filly families" but the colts... well. Also, mares like Inside Information and Heavenly Prize who were monstresses on the track and beautifully bred have been less than stellar broodies for them. That's not Shug's fault. If you'd asked most bloodstock experts in 1997 or so what they thought the next decade looked like for Shug the'd have mentioned mares like those and others producing stellar runners. I have no idea why for several generations now those families have produced terrific fillies and dreadful colts.

How dare you call Leading the Parade dreadful..lol

jinjin · #15 01-27-2009, 03:20 PM

I agree that the Phipps colts have been disappointing. As to Inside Information, she did produce champion 3yr old filly, Smuggler. Does anyone know what happened to Colors Flying (first foal out of Storm Flag Flying by A.P. Indy)? He's working again at Payson. I was just wondering if he was hurt or had a problem after training last summer at Saratoga and never making a start.

lemoncrush · #16 01-27-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

I think most of IC's followers come from his debut 2nd to Hello Broadway. He'll have to show me something in his 3yo debut but right now if was a 2 horse race to the Derby, I'd take him over Dunkirk, who I was not impressed with.

His debut was the race that opened my eyes, mostly due to being totally surprised that a Shug horse was so game 1st time out, and that his pedigree suggested he would be far more effective routing than sprinting.

At this point, ihs hype isn't based on credentials, as much as it is potential.

blackthroatedwind · #17 01-27-2009, 04:04 PM

I'm rooting for this horse. I made one of biggest lifetime scores on his dam, Jaramar Rain, when she broke her maiden at Keeneland a few years ago. Plus, a friend of mine is one of his owners.

I agree, however, with Linny. His debut was more exciting than his subsequent win....though he did win fairly easily that day. In retrospect, maybe we overrated that race, but Hello Broadway is still pretty good.

Linny · #18 01-27-2009, 04:05 PM

At this point the only colts with credentials are Midshipman, Vineyard Haven and to a lesser extent, Pioneerof the Nile and Old Fashioned. With the top 2 in Dubai, the other two lead the pack, with OF getting the edge because Pioneer has never run on dirt. Square Eddie ranks 3rd. From there on back it's all based on potential. We get a preview on Fri with the Hutcheson (Hello Broadway who beat IC and Break Water Edison return.) but it may be that the best of the classic colts is still working on allowance conditions.
Imperial Council could turn out well. His "shins" have given him time to grow, which should suit a colt of his breeding. Depending on what he faces and how he does it, I'd not knock him, but I don't have him ranked in my Top12 yet either.

MaTH716 · #19 01-27-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm rooting for this horse. I made one of biggest lifetime scores on his dam, Jaramar Rain, when she broke her maiden a few years ago. Plus, a friend of mine is one of his owners.

I agree, however, with Linny. His debut was more exciting than his subsequent win....though he did win fairly easily that day. In retrospect, maybe we overrated that race, but Hello Broadway is still pretty good.

I remember that race like it was yesterday. If I remember correctly, it was at Keenland (pre poly) she was the one (and came up the golden rail) and went off at 8-1. It's funny how you remember the good ones. Thanks again for that one.

blackthroatedwind · #20 01-27-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I remember that race like it was yesterday. If I remember correctly, it was at Keenland (pre poly) she was the one (and came up the golden rail) and went off at 8-1. It's funny how you remember the good ones. Thanks again for that one.

She was 16:1.

You went on vacation when she won and brought me back a bottle of rum as thanks.