Does it stand a chance?

[Split Rock]

In reading another thread on this site about Marty Wolfson and other trainers that can win a Grade 1 race with a turd sandwhich, it is becoming way too clear that there is absolutely no hope for horse racing. At least not when it pertains to running a legit event.

My question is....why don't "honest trainers" (assuming there are some) that win at 6% (i.e. Jack Van Berg, etc) stand united against this crap?....or at least take one of these trainers out back and clean up the sport from within?

I'm just so surprised that this rampant cheating can continue to ravage the sport like a malignant tumor. All of the horse players want a clean game. I assume most owners and trainers do, as well. Why can't this be fixed?

Does anyone feel that the game will ever make a comeback in its current state? Isn't a major turnaround needed to "save" the game before the 70+ crowd dies off and drops the paid attendence from tens of thousands in the mid 80's to tens...?

Are there any legal and plausible excuses for the dramatic success these trainers have? I've not heard one legitimate rationale for a Wolfson, Dutrow or Lake monster success story. Anyone with a 37 IQ has to surmize that blatant cheating is in effect. I'd love to hear proof of the contrary but I'm quite certain the typical babble about knowing where to spot horses or good care is the answer. Yawn!

The game is precariously close to losing all credibility. Wait....I just saw Gary Coleman peddling CashCall on TvG.....point taken.....credibility restored

[letswastemoney]

adjust your handicapping to figure in the cheaters

[joeydb]

You are correct in pointing out that any cheating, even the perception of it, is detrimental to the sport. You are further correct in pointing out the demographics of the racing patron. However, the sport is suffering more because of the ease of availability of other forms of less cerebral, adrenaline pumping gambling enterprises than from any cheating, real or perceived.

The most popular form of gambling today is the slot machine. The typical slots patron has no interest in trying to "figure out" the puzzle that constitutes a racing matchup. They dislike math and bookkeeping. They would be bored to tears waiting 25 minutes between post times -- especially the ones who play 2 or 3 machines at once. At least that is their own perception, that the extra effort, research, knowledge, is not worth it. If they were to experience the thrills of a good day of racing, maybe some of them would have an open mind, but probably not the majority.

Steve has pointed out on his radio show that the real hurdle is getting them to the track. We have got to get more people into this game, and we do it by showing people what a good time can be had at it. This is not a new sport; it's not a fad. Variations of some forms of racing go back to the Roman Empire at the Circus Maximus. This truly is a sport of timeless appeal for those who have experienced it.

It's all been said here before. Many of us have had ideas for advertisements, things that the NTRA or NYRA or Magna can do to bring new players in, but the most effective advertising tool has always been word of mouth.

This year, at the Kentucky Derby parties, show people what fun it can be, and some of them will become hooked.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

In reading another thread on this site about Marty Wolfson and other trainers that can win a Grade 1 race with a turd sandwhich, it is becoming way too clear that there is absolutely no hope for horse racing. At least not when it pertains to running a legit event.

My question is....why don't "honest trainers" (assuming there are some) that win at 6% (i.e. Jack Van Berg, etc) stand united against this crap?....or at least take one of these trainers out back and clean up the sport from within?

I'm just so surprised that this rampant cheating can continue to ravage the sport like a malignant tumor. All of the horse players want a clean game. I assume most owners and trainers do, as well. Why can't this be fixed?

Does anyone feel that the game will ever make a comeback in its current state? Isn't a major turnaround needed to "save" the game before the 70+ crowd dies off and drops the paid attendence from tens of thousands in the mid 80's to tens...?

Are there any legal and plausible excuses for the dramatic success these trainers have? I've not heard one legitimate rationale for a Wolfson, Dutrow or Lake monster success story. Anyone with a 37 IQ has to surmize that blatant cheating is in effect. I'd love to hear proof of the contrary but I'm quite certain the typical babble about knowing where to spot horses or good care is the answer. Yawn!

The game is precariously close to losing all credibility. Wait....I just saw Gary Coleman peddling CashCall on TvG.....point taken.....credibility restored

I'm going to focus on the part that I highlighted. Look at the first response to your post on this thread. Adjust your handicapping. Not an attempt at a solution (and I'm not suggesting that Letswastemoney even should be attempting to find one) but rather the reaction that is typical of many horseplayers. Most gamblers are looking for every advantage that they can find. If those that follow the game closely and study patterns can find any advantage to use, they will use it. If it means knowing who's cheating and adjusting accordingly, even better. If it means taking advantage of those relatively new or casual fans that don't know who's cheating, even better. Gamblers don't want the playing field to be equal. This is perfect for them. You also state that most owners and trainers want a clean game. I don't doubt that is true but the problem is that the majority doesn't decide things here. The guys that are putting hundreds of thousands and millions into the sport don't want a level playing field. Nobody wants to put $2.7 million into buying a horse that's competing on the same playing field as the guy that's buying horses for $15k. When you are putting up the kind of money that some of these people are, you are looking for every advantage that you can to be successful. They won't ever pressure the powers that be in the sport to try to even the playing field out. The ones that aren't winning want a clean sport. The ones that are making out like bandits, they like it the way it is. Jim Rome likes to say "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." I think that's unfortunately a very true statement in sports today. Who's willing to get involved in something that everyone knows there is cheating going on and you have no chance to be consistently successful unless you cheat also? Only those that are ready to cheat.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by joeydb

You are correct in pointing out that any cheating, even the perception of it, is detrimental to the sport. You are further correct in pointing out the demographics of the racing patron. However, the sport is suffering more because of the ease of availability of other forms of less cerebral, adrenaline pumping gambling enterprises than from any cheating, real or perceived.

The most popular form of gambling today is the slot machine. The typical slots patron has no interest in trying to "figure out" the puzzle that constitutes a racing matchup. They dislike math and bookkeeping. They would be bored to tears waiting 25 minutes between post times -- especially the ones who play 2 or 3 machines at once. At least that is their own perception, that the extra effort, research, knowledge, is not worth it. If they were to experience the thrills of a good day of racing, maybe some of them would have an open mind, but probably not the majority.

Steve has pointed out on his radio show that the real hurdle is getting them to the track. We have got to get more people into this game, and we do it by showing people what a good time can be had at it. This is not a new sport; it's not a fad. Variations of some forms of racing go back to the Roman Empire at the Circus Maximus. This truly is a sport of timeless appeal for those who have experienced it.

It's all been said here before. Many of us have had ideas for advertisements, things that the NTRA or NYRA or Magna can do to bring new players in, but the most effective advertising tool has always been word of mouth.

This year, at the Kentucky Derby parties, show people what fun it can be, and some of them will become hooked.

Must agree that there are a lot of pylons out there that want entertainment to be interveneously injected into them. However, there are quite a few people that have big egos, like me, that think they can "outmaster" the crowd. Horse racing provides that opportunity. For some reason, many have migrated away from horse racing because they feel that only a select few have an edge....and they aint the guys reading the form.

[Split Rock]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I'm going to focus on the part that I highlighted. Look at the first response to your post on this thread. Adjust your handicapping. Not an attempt at a solution (and I'm not suggesting that Letswastemoney even should be attempting to find one) but rather the reaction that is typical of many horseplayers. Most gamblers are looking for every advantage that they can find. If those that follow the game closely and study patterns can find any advantage to use, they will use it. If it means knowing who's cheating and adjusting accordingly, even better. If it means taking advantage of those relatively new or casual fans that don't know who's cheating, even better. Gamblers don't want the playing field to be equal. This is perfect for them. You also state that most owners and trainers want a clean game. I don't doubt that is true but the problem is that the majority doesn't decide things here. The guys that are putting hundreds of thousands and millions into the sport don't want a level playing field. Nobody wants to put $2.7 million into buying a horse that's competing on the same playing field as the guy that's buying horses for $15k. When you are putting up the kind of money that some of these people are, you are looking for every advantage that you can to be successful. They won't ever pressure the powers that be in the sport to try to even the playing field out. The ones that aren't winning want a clean sport. The ones that are making out like bandits, they like it the way it is. Jim Rome likes to say "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." I think that's unfortunately a very true statement in sports today. Who's willing to get involved in something that everyone knows there is cheating going on and you have no chance to be consistently successful unless you cheat also? Only those that are ready to cheat.

Good post but I see the highligted differently. Those putting in 2.7 million want a fair game because the breeding should "rise to the top". Currently, there are trainers like the Beattie's, Justin Evans, etc. that are beating these blue blooded animals with hooved fecal matter.

I would be pissed off if I was investing millions into the breeding side, only to finish 3rd to $15,000 claimers injested with battery acid or whatever it is these days.