EU to Obama - Quit underminin' the global economy with yer free money!

[Rudeboyelvis]

EU Presidency: Obama Plans 'a Way to Hell' -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510445,00.html


As unpractical as it may be, we really need to go back to making our own sh.t. Ef these tools.

[Riot]

Yes, what is needed is the stricter and more oppressive government control of the private financial firms/markets favored by many of the Europeans

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

Yes, what is needed is the stricter and more oppressive government control of the private financial firms/markets favored by many of the Europeans

Is that not the Obama Plan in a nutshell?

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Is that not the Obama Plan in a nutshell?

yeah..but who was screaming for the AIG bonuses to be null and void...didn't that start with the right? You guys cherry pick to your own best interests a lot

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Is that not the Obama Plan in a nutshell?

Heck, Obama is nowhere close to what some of them would do. We'll have to see what comes out of the Group of 20 summit.

[GBBob]

When the neo cons are looking to the Europeans for Govt advise you know they have lost it

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

yeah..but who was screaming for the AIG bonuses to be null and void...didn't that start with the right? You guys cherry pick to your own best interests a lot

we do but still think the bonuses are 'chump change' compared to the $$$ being given to AIG and other banks and automakers. None of it seemingly accountable and some even secret. The thing that peeves me about the bonus thing was the fact Obama & Co knew of it far earlier than they first admitted and jumped on the bandwagon after figuring it would be great punching bag to use.

A little 'three card monte' to keep the public off the 'Ponzi'

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

we do but still think the bonuses are 'chump change' compared to the $$$ being given to AIG and other banks and automakers. None of it seemingly accountable and some even secret. The thing that peeves me about the bonus thing was the fact Obama & Co knew of it far earlier than they first admitted and jumped on the bandwagon after figuring it would be great punching bag to use.

A little 'three card monte' to keep the public off the 'Ponzi'

Forgetting AIG for a minute...if you guys really think letting all the automakers and banks file BK was in our best interests, then I truly never will understand what you are trying to accomplish. At some point reality trumps principal, but the right is so stuck in their ideologies that there is zero flexibility to adjust to changing conditions.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Forgetting AIG for a minute...if you guys really think letting all the automakers and banks file BK was in our best interests, then I truly never will understand what you are trying to accomplish. At some point reality trumps principal, but the right is so stuck in their ideologies that there is zero flexibility to adjust to changing conditions.

Not ALL the automakers would even qualify for bankruptcy. Ford and GM need to get out of the rediculous union deals they are into and don't need to go out of business just restructure. Strike a fair contract based on today's market. Must admit though the banks that became more hedge fund managers than financial institutions need to be out of business. Mortgage Brokers who stretched the truth, flipped numbers etc to get people qualified and out the door should be prosecuted. And lastly Barney Frank for standing up for Fannie Mae saying Republicans were being racist wanting more regulation and accountability? Have to think about that for a while.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Not ALL the automakers would even qualify for bankruptcy. Ford and GM need to get out of the rediculous union deals they are into and don't need to go out of business just restructure. Strike a fair contract based on today's market. Must admit though the banks that became more hedge fund managers than financial institutions need to be out of business. Mortgage Brokers who stretched the truth, flipped numbers etc to get people qualified and out the door should be prosecuted. And lastly Barney Frank for standing up for Fannie Mae saying Republicans were being racist wanting more regulation and accountability? Have to think about that for a while.

If you think we had time to "restructure" and wait out this process, I disagree. There are too many innocents who would have been added to the unemployment rolls if immediate action wasn't taken. Of course I agree that the union deals are ridiculous, but they have evolved over multiple watches over the the years and to just expect Obama to flip a switch in his first month to correct decades of ills is unrealistic. That's what gets me...you guys just keep cutting and insulting...and many times correctly, IMO, but where is the factual detail about what you would do? It's easy to sit back and just snipe away, but where is the sent from God right wing answer? And don't tell me "stop spending"...let's here details...details. Right or wrong, Obama is out there with a plan...And the Democratics are rightfully cutting it where needed. But where is the opposition plan to pull us out? Where is Newt's "Contract for America"..Where has anyone from the right come forward with anything constructive besides criticism?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Forgetting AIG for a minute...if you guys really think letting all the automakers and banks file BK was in our best interests, then I truly never will understand what you are trying to accomplish. At some point reality trumps principal, but the right is so stuck in their ideologies that there is zero flexibility to adjust to changing conditions.

BK would have been a better option. what we're trying to accomplish is letting the market make the required adjustments. Its much smarter than government planners. if it was understood from the begginning that there would not be any Uncle Sam bailouts, then these companies would not have taken the risks they have. and the ones that did deserve to be flushed. BK is the mechanism that the market uses to repair itself to recover and grow. sure its painful, but what we're doing doesn't get rid of the pain, it just prolongs and delays it.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by GBBob

That's what gets me...you guys just keep cutting and insulting...and many times correctly, IMO, but where is the factual detail about what you would do? It's easy to sit back and just snipe away, but where is the sent from God right wing answer? And don't tell me "stop spending"...let's here details...details. Right or wrong, Obama is out there with a plan...And the Democratics are rightfully cutting it where needed. But where is the opposition plan to pull us out? Where is Newt's "Contract for America"..Where has anyone from the right come forward with anything constructive besides criticism?

I would let GM and Ford file and restructure. They got guys at the Janesville plant barely able to tie their shoes and are making $70plus/hr when beni's are included. We disagree on that.

It is easier to nit pick but for instance I would have left in the verification of citizenship for new hires of companies receiving stim money but dems took it out. Instead of some sort of youth volunteer organization I'd give incentives to companies to hire interns with education awards for not just showing up but doing well.

Ron White had this idea though not very practical...

We sell Florida to Isreal and use the money as a down payment on Mexico. We deport our illegals back to Mexico and hire them back to paint and improve the landscape. We flip it and sell it back to Mexico with a very bad very high adjustable loan. We let them default, foreclose on it and use it as equity to buy our way all the way to the Panama Canal which was ours to begin with. We then pump enough oil from the ground to make Mexico sink about 30 feet creating our wall, natural.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

BK would have been a better option. what we're trying to accomplish is letting the market make the required adjustments. Its much smarter than government planners. if it was understood from the begginning that there would not be any Uncle Sam bailouts, then these companies would not have taken the risks they have. and the ones that did deserve to be flushed. BK is the mechanism that the market uses to repair itself to recover and grow. sure its painful, but what we're doing doesn't get rid of the pain, it just prolongs and delays it.

My feeling is that under "normal" circumstances you are right...but the trickle down from those filings (multiple) would have been too much. I will argue that that the ramifications for this country from the debt we are incurring as a whole is better than the individual reprecussions of multiple automakers and banks filing BK.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

BK would have been a better option. what we're trying to accomplish is letting the market make the required adjustments. Its much smarter than government planners. if it was understood from the begginning that there would not be any Uncle Sam bailouts, then these companies would not have taken the risks they have. and the ones that did deserve to be flushed. BK is the mechanism that the market uses to repair itself to recover and grow. sure its painful, but what we're doing doesn't get rid of the pain, it just prolongs and delays it.

And I'll even argue that a BK is a bigger cop out than a bail out. At some point, it's six of one, half a dozen of another at that level. Before a DIP ever exists, there would be billions unpaid to debtors who would then in turn either have filed or had to release millions to unemplyment. The trickle down effect of the auto industry is incredible...I know it's easy to blast the CEOs in their planes, but you keep talking about the "market"...i think we're beyond that.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by GBBob

My feeling is that under "normal" circumstances you are right...but the trickle down from those filings (multiple) would have been too much. I will argue that that the ramifications for this country from the debt we are incurring as a whole is better than the individual reprecussions of multiple automakers and banks filing BK.

yes i know, we don't operate under normal circumstances. but i have to disagree on the other part, the ramifications from the debt will dwarf everything.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yes i know, we don't operate under normal circumstances. but i have to disagree on the other part, the ramifications from the debt will dwarf everything.

and at that point...I hope you hope you're wrong

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by GBBob

And I'll even argue that a BK is a bigger cop out than a bail out. At some point, it's six of one, half a dozen of another at that level. Before a DIP ever exists, there would be billions unpaid to debtors who would then in turn either have filed or had to release millions to unemplyment. The trickle down effect of the auto industry is incredible...I know it's easy to blast the CEOs in their planes, but you keep talking about the "market"...i think we're beyond that.

it makes no sense to prop up diseased companies in order to avoid the unemployment. it scares me a lot because I work for a US autoparts supplier, I'm aware of the far reaching effects those companies have.
like i said, there is pain, you can't avoid it. but those people that get laid off get retrained or picked up in functioning companies in growing industries, or learn something new, or whatever. if you short-circuit that mechanism then our resources are never rationally utilyzed.
there was 100% employment in the old soviet union as I recall. also 100% poverty.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by GBBob

and at that point...I hope you hope you're wrong

of course, I don't want to be right, but i'm not going to wear rose colored glasses either.

[Cannon Shell]

The Europeans arent the problem, they bitch and complain no matter what. The Chinese push for a "new" currency is a far bigger deal for us than the EU and their bs.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...-it-both-ways/