friesan fire excuse

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...fire-sidelined

Another Jones horse breaks down. I'm stunned.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...fire-sidelined

Another Jones horse breaks down. I'm stunned.

Few things in the game piss me off more than finding out a horse I bet on was injured before a high profile race such as a TC event and later the connections fess up that they "knew" something just didn't seem right after the race.

If those two fractures have "healing lines" on the films they didn't occur in the Preakness but more likely the Derby which just makes the whole thing ......aww forget it. I should know better by now...

[GBBob]

O/U on his retirement date....8/11

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by GBBob

O/U on his retirement date....8/11

Under
He's done enough.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by GBBob

O/U on his retirement date....8/11

Vinery is probably preparing the stall right now....

[booner]

I'll take the over. If Pyro can attempt a comeback, anyone can....

[Linny]

Originally Posted by GBBob

O/U on his retirement date....8/11

Hey, 8/11 is my birthday. Sounds like a good date. I expected him to bounce back in the Preakness, now I know why he didn't. Too bad they didn't "check him out" BEFORE the Preakness.

[Indian Charlie]

No duh he was injured. Anyone believing him to be sound going into the Preakness needs to find a clue.

I'll take the over on the retirement date. He won't be retired until they 'try' to bring him back but 'decide' he's too nice a horse to risk coming back. I imagine this will happen in the months just before breeding season starts.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

No duh he was injured. Anyone believing him to be sound going into the Preakness needs to find a clue.

I'll take the over on the retirement date. He won't be retired until they 'try' to bring him back but 'decide' he's too nice a horse to risk coming back. I imagine this will happen in the months just before breeding season starts.

or the 'we wanted him back for the bc, but that won't happen so...' off he'll go. i do believe the old fashioned line was 'he won't be the same' so off he went.
hard to say right now tho, with stud fees down and the like. altho, with vinery being half owner, you'd think they'd just ship him home.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

No duh he was injured. Anyone believing him to be sound going into the Preakness needs to find a clue.

I'll take the over on the retirement date. He won't be retired until they 'try' to bring him back but 'decide' he's too nice a horse to risk coming back. I imagine this will happen in the months just before breeding season starts.

makes me wonder about that seven week break before the derby. wonder if there was something cooking back after his last, and that's why they had the big break? i really wondered then if everything was all bright and shiny, that they really intended to do all that.

[Riot]

Bone chips are considered breakdowns now? Poor broken down Rachel Alexandra.

There are plenty of stress fractures that are not visible on even excellent digital radiographs. Nobody here knows if the horse (who was training very well) was radiographed after the Derby and before the Preakness, and vetted perfectly clean; only later to have the stress fracture found, visible only via nuclear scintigraphy.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...fire-sidelined

Another Jones horse breaks down. I'm stunned.

How do you think he will do as a stallion?

[the_fat_man]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[chucklestheclown]

Does this mean Larry Jones will finally retire? I think he's the one that's done enough. And I mean that in a good way, I understand why he couldn't quit after 8 Belles (RIP) but now he can go and at least regroup.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Riot

Bone chips are considered breakdowns now? Poor broken down Rachel Alexandra.

There are plenty of stress fractures that are not visible on even excellent digital radiographs. Nobody here knows if the horse (who was training very well) was radiographed after the Derby and before the Preakness, and vetted perfectly clean; only later to have the stress fracture found, visible only via nuclear scintigraphy.

Respectfully disagree sir....about 2 weeks post fracture the osteoblasts start to repair a fracture and a visible line of repair is evident on plain film. The finding is not subtle. A fracture with a fragment is one of the easiest findings to read on an XRay. In my heart of hearts I just have a feeling that the fans and the betting public were taken for a ride on this one....the horse should never have seen the track at Pimlico.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Respectfully disagree sir....about 2 weeks post fracture the osteoblasts start to repair a fracture and a visible line of repair is evident on plain film. The finding is not subtle. A fracture with a fragment is one of the easiest findings to read on an XRay. In my heart of hearts I just have a feeling that the fans and the betting public were taken for a ride on this one....the horse should never have seen the track at Pimlico.

tell her watz up doc..

[booner]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Respectfully disagree sir....about 2 weeks post fracture the osteoblasts start to repair a fracture and a visible line of repair is evident on plain film. The finding is not subtle. A fracture with a fragment is one of the easiest findings to read on an XRay. In my heart of hearts I just have a feeling that the fans and the betting public were taken for a ride on this one....the horse should never have seen the track at Pimlico.

Just wondering doc....this injury was not bad enough to keep him from working 5f in less than 1:00 before the Preakness? That was a very solid workout, and one that led me to think he was fine.

If this is the case, I would almost compare this to a cartilage tear I had when I was younger. I could run a mile with no problem, but the swelling would start and the next 2.1 miles I ran would be very rough. Would this be the case with FF?

I'm just being Curious George here.......

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by booner

Just wondering doc....this injury was not bad enough to keep him from working 5f in less than 1:00 before the Preakness? That was a very solid workout, and one that led me to think he was fine.

If this is the case, I would almost compare this to a cartilage tear I had when I was younger. I could run a mile with no problem, but the swelling would start and the next 2.1 miles I ran would be very rough. Would this be the case with FF?

I'm just being Curious George here.......

Hard to know...

Sure it could be like that. Horses can overcome a number of problems for 4 or 5 furlongs that don't start to hamper them until a mile or so...

also as a former athlete you or I probably have had our share of hairline fractures or even small bone chips. Many athletes have this, a jammed finger could lead to a hairline fracture, distance running could lead to a small stress fracture in your shin or something...

Originally Posted by Lou Gehrig biography / non related to his ALS

Later in his career Gehrig's hands were X-rayed, and doctors were able to spot 17 different fractures that had "healed" while Gehrig continued to play.

[Bobby Fischer]

On this whole conspiracy thing - sheesh guys. It's not as bad as Pace Advantage over here, but not everything is a conspiracy! Some of these things happen at face value.


The horse got roughed up bad in the Derby.
When he came out, the primary concern was getting the hoof to attach back. They probably did the general "testing" for heat on his legs and it probably came back ok. His hoof healed quickly and they were probably excited and satisfied. They breezed him and he responded very well. Thats about it.

After the Preakness they went over with a "fine tooth comb" looking for problems/excuses which brings us up to date.


As far as being an excuse for his poor efforts - I think the Derby was a bad enough trip that he needs no excuse for that race. Ideally he would have recovered and started picking up horses late to get up for 5th or 6th, but there was really no shame in being eased home at that point. Anyone who tossed Friesan Fire "because of" the Derby should consider the proverbial "giving up the game".


In the Preakness he had another pretty bad trip. He broke to his knees. Instead of settling 5 lengths off the pace where the setup for him was more reasonable, Saez called on him for run early rushing up. At the same time Big Drama broke Friesan Fire's momentum and bore out on him. He had to fight through Big Drama early, while chasing a pace which annihilated the other chasers. However in the Preakness you would have liked to have seen him show some resistance, which he didn't.

Horses come back and run big races all the time after getting two bad trips in a row, some at good prices. The hardest part about keeping faith in that kind of situation is that with Friesan Fire, his nightmare trips coincided with his first true class test, and he didn't show any extraordinary signs of resistance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

On this whole conspiracy thing - sheesh guys. It's not as bad as Pace Advantage over here, but not everything is a conspiracy! Some of these things happen at face value.


The horse got roughed up bad in the Derby.
When he came out, the primary concern was getting the hoof to attach back. They probably did the general "testing" for heat on his legs and it probably came back ok. His hoof healed quickly and they were probably excited and satisfied. They breezed him and he responded very well. Thats about it.

After the Preakness they went over with a "fine tooth comb" looking for problems/excuses which brings us up to date.


As far as being an excuse for his poor efforts - I think the Derby was a bad enough trip that he needs no excuse for that race. Ideally he would have recovered and started picking up horses late to get up for 5th or 6th, but there was really no shame in being eased home at that point. Anyone who tossed Friesan Fire "because of" the Derby should consider the proverbial "giving up the game".


In the Preakness he had another pretty bad trip. He broke to his knees. Instead of settling 5 lengths off the pace where the setup for him was more reasonable, Saez called on him for run early rushing up. At the same time Big Drama broke Friesan Fire's momentum and bore out on him. He had to fight through Big Drama early, while chasing a pace which annihilated the other chasers. However in the Preakness you would have liked to have seen him show some resistance, which he didn't.

Horses come back and run big races all the time after getting two bad trips in a row, some at good prices. The hardest part about keeping faith in that kind of situation is that with Friesan Fire, his nightmare trips coincided with his first true class test, and he didn't show any extraordinary signs of resistance.

i seriously doubt that his grabbed quarter was bad at all-he lost no training time, so it couldn't have been serious. if it was serious, then they had no business running him back. i think that injury was overblown and had no bearing on his derby loss.
the horse ran 1 1/16th in his last derby start. how they thought that as a final prep, and seven weeks to the derby was the way to get that colt prepared to run 10f i don't know-imo that's a far bigger reason for his lackluster performance than any supposed quarter injury.