shaq to the Cavs

[gales0678]

Will this push them over the top?

[geeker2]

It would be more beneficial if he joined the Cleveland Police Force - Shaq is over-the-hill.



His first duty could be investigating the disappearance of Morty...

No.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by geeker2

It would be more beneficial if he joined the Cleveland Police Force - Shaq is over-the-hill.



His first duty could be investigating the disappearance of Morty...

He's a spring chicken compared to Ben Wallace and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I don't think this puts them over the top but it puts them a lot closer. I think they still need another jump shooter, Mo Williams is their only guy that shoots over 40% which is pretty bad with the number of open looks they should get with Lebron getting double teamed.

[King Glorious]

I'd like to know how many centers that aren't over the hill were more productive or had better seasons than him last year. I'd say Howard, Jefferson before he got hurt, Duncan, and Ming. if Shaq can produce anywhere near the level he did last year, he's still an upper echelon center. maybe that says more about the quality at that position than it does about him but it doesn't change the truth.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

He's a spring chicken compared to Ben Wallace and Zydrunas Ilgauskas. I don't think this puts them over the top but it puts them a lot closer. I think they still need another jump shooter, Mo Williams is their only guy that shoots over 40% which is pretty bad with the number of open looks they should get with Lebron getting double teamed.

West shot 45% and 40% on threes. They need a long defender more than anything else now that they have a low post presence. They could use a big combo guard but so could just about everyone else. I believe that Cleveland wont overuse Shaq in the regular season similarly to what Phoenix did last year. They got him without giving up much, just a one season salary increase. Pavlovic may well resign with them anyway since Phoenix is likely to cut him.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

West shot 45% and 40% on threes. They need a long defender more than anything else now that they have a low post presence. They could use a big combo guard but so could just about everyone else. I believe that Cleveland wont overuse Shaq in the regular season similarly to what Phoenix did last year. They got him without giving up much, just a one season salary increase. Pavlovic may well resign with them anyway since Phoenix is likely to cut him.

I was talking about 40% on 3 pointers. West is not a great 3 point shooter. With the open looks he gets from the presence of Lebron a really good jump shooter should be much higher than 39.9% in the regular season and 33.3% in the postseason. They could use a long defender but I think they can survive with Varejao now that they have Shaq. When they needed Varejao to play the five is when they were in big trouble. I think adding another jump shooter is their biggest need right now. Pavlovic coming back would certainly lessen that need but getting someone better than him would be a big boost.

[dalakhani]

Are we back to perseverating over the merits of Delonte West?

Please...make it stop.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I was talking about 40% on 3 pointers. West is not a great 3 point shooter. With the open looks he gets from the presence of Lebron a really good jump shooter should be much higher than 39.9% in the regular season and 33.3% in the postseason. They could use a long defender but I think they can survive with Varejao now that they have Shaq. When they needed Varejao to play the five is when they were in big trouble. I think adding another jump shooter is their biggest need right now. Pavlovic coming back would certainly lessen that need but getting someone better than him would be a big boost.

The guy shoots 40% on threes in the regular season. It should be higher than that? Who are all these other guys that are shooting "contested" three pointers without Lebron? West shot a better % than JR Smith, Rashard Lewis, Paul Pierce, etc. Varejao has shown that he is not a perimeter defender pretty conclusively during the playoffs.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Are we back to perseverating over the merits of Delonte West?

Please...make it stop.

Saying West is not a great three point shooter when he is shooting 40% from there is pretty ridiculous. Saying that because of Lebron they should shoot a better % is more than a stretch.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I was talking about 40% on 3 pointers. West is not a great 3 point shooter. With the open looks he gets from the presence of Lebron a really good jump shooter should be much higher than 39.9% in the regular season and 33.3% in the postseason. They could use a long defender but I think they can survive with Varejao now that they have Shaq. When they needed Varejao to play the five is when they were in big trouble. I think adding another jump shooter is their biggest need right now. Pavlovic coming back would certainly lessen that need but getting someone better than him would be a big boost.

The Cavs were one of the top 3 point percentage teams in the league last year. Top 3. They shot a better percentage on the year than Orlando. Williams fell apart in the playoffs until the last two Orlando games...by that time the cat was out of the bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter is OUTSTANDING. That is not their weakness. I can't see Pavlovic coming back. He is not a favorite with the coaching staff. He was not in their rotation at the end of the season. The only time he got big minutes last year was when West broke his wrist. Good trade...they got Shaq for nothing. Wallace can't play at all anymore and Pavlovic is pretty much a non-entity. If it doesn't put them over the top...they were never over the top anyway.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Are we back to perseverating over the merits of Delonte West?

Please...make it stop.

What's your problem with him?? He had a good year last year. He's not a superstar, but good God who is?? He's a good perimeter defender...the best on their team and he gives them at least a threat offensively. For me, compared to Larry Hughes, he seems like a superstar comparitively. West was not the problem in post season this year. The problem in the Orlando series as I explained time and time and time and time again to you was Mo Williams. He didn't show up til game 5 and it was too late by then.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The guy shoots 40% on threes in the regular season. It should be higher than that? Who are all these other guys that are shooting "contested" three pointers without Lebron? West shot a better % than JR Smith, Rashard Lewis, Paul Pierce, etc. Varejao has shown that he is not a perimeter defender pretty conclusively during the playoffs.

I think we can all agree that Steve Kerr is a great shooter. Without Jordan he was a 42.2% shooter from 3. With Jordan he was a 47.9% shooter from 3. Why? Cause Jordan attracted attention and gave him more open looks. Mo Wiliams was a 35.9% three point shooter before he went to Cleveland. He shot 43.6% this year. Why? Cause Lebron attracted attention and gave him more open looks. The fact that West shot 39.9% this year with Lebron means with other teams he would likely be a 35-36% 3 point shooter.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by gales0678

Will this push them over the top?

It's Cleveland. A most definitive NO. Well worth the risk however.

[King Glorious]

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

A 40% shooter is good, hardly great. Let's be clear about that. I wanted to look up something real quick. Back when the Bulls won their six titles, I wanted to see what the % was of the guy taking the most 3's besides Jordan.

1991-Tucker 41%
1992-Hodges 38%
1993-Hodges 38%
1996-Pippen 37%
1997-Pippen 37%
1998-Pippen 32%

West's 40% is about in line for what a decent/good shooter will hit. I get Sniper's point though. The percentage is at 40 for him because of LeBron. But what Sniper didn't point out correctly the first time but did fix later is that West is not normally a 40% shooter so the LeBron factor is what improved him. If West was a normal 40% shooter, then Sniper would be correct in expecting him to be up even higher with James.

IN the end though is 36 percent really that bad?? 3 point shooting was far from a problem for the Cavs this year. As I said they were one of the top 3 percentage teams in the league last year. The problem in the ORlando series is it left them for some reason. I dont' know the reason...Orlando's defense, just not shooting well etc. I have no clue. It appeared they got open looks in that series though. That's what the team was however...LeBron and a bunch of outside shooters. They are in trouble if they don't shoot well. That's what happened the Orlando series. EVen Ilgauskas despite being 7 foot 3, his offensive strength is as an outside shooter. Dalakhani mentioned it several times and it was one thing I did agree with her about...the Cavs had zero post offensive threat.

But my point is if you take a lot of 3 pointers anything in the 35 to 45 percent range is good. WEst is a pretty good 3 point shooter.

[SniperSB23]

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What about a guy like Bobby Simmons? He's making over $10 million this year so I have to imagine the Nets want to unload him. Even if they just want the expiring contract they could have Ilgauskas and be in the same boat. Simmons shot 44.7% with NJ last year, 42.0% with the Milwaukee a few years back, and 43.5% with the Clippers before that. Couldn't he be a perfect fit off the bench for the Cavs?

Outside shooting is not their problem. It was a strength last year. That's why they won 66 games last year. The problem with the team is that it was too much a focus...when the outside shots stopped falling in the Orlando series they had nothing else other than LEBron. No post offense to fall back on. Same with Orlando....difference in that series they made their 3s Cleveland didn't. THeir 3's stopped falling against LA...they lost in 5. When you depend so much on making 3s as both those teams do, you'll have to get lucky to win it all. Neither did.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

IN the end though is 36 percent really that bad?? 3 point shooting was far from a problem for the Cavs this year. As I said they were one of the top 3 percentage teams in the league last year. The problem in the ORlando series is it left them for some reason. I dont' know the reason...Orlando's defense, just not shooting well etc. I have no clue. It appeared they got open looks in that series though. That's what the team was however...LeBron and a bunch of outside shooters. They are in trouble if they don't shoot well. That's what happened the Orlando series. EVen Ilgauskas despite being 7 foot 3, his offensive strength is as an outside shooter. Dalakhani mentioned it several times and it was one thing I did agree with her about...the Cavs had zero post offensive threat.

But my point is if you take a lot of 3 pointers anything in the 35 to 45 percent range is good. WEst is a pretty good 3 point shooter.

I don't think 36% is bad. I do think that with the way the Cavalier offense is set up, they'd be better off getting a guy that's a more natural 40% shooter so that when he gets the better looks that James creates, he might up it to around 44-45%.

[timmgirvan]

Past history aside, I think if Shaq came into camp leaner and business-like he wouldn't be prone to late-season injuries.....they could get another shot!
However, Jefferson going to Spurs could make it really interesting in the West!