Silverbulletday VS Rachel Alexandra through Aug of 3yo season

[The Indomitable DrugS]

2-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 6-for-7 Top Beyer: 104

RA: 3-for-6 Top Beyer: 99


3-year-old races:

Silverbulletday: 7-for-8 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer 104.75

RA: 7-for-7 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 106.71



Sprint Races:

Silverbulletday: 3-for-4 Top Beyer 87

RA: 2-for-4 Top Beyer 85


Route Races:

Silverbulletday: 10-for-11 Top Beyer: 115 Avg Beyer: 103.64

RA: 8-for-9 Top Beyer: 116 Avg Beyer: 103.33


Overall Record:

Silverbulletday: 13-for-15 (12 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)

RA: 10-for-13 (7 Graded Stakes wins. 4 Grade 1 wins)


Almost identical body of work in every way to this point.

Silverbulletday felt the strain of that tough campaign and all the Baffert training .. she won the Grade 1 Gazelle easily in Sept giving away a bunch of weight .. but her figures were tailing off just slightly and the older mares she'd run into were a beastly fast group at the time.

Rachel Alexandra doesn't have to worry about any beastly fast group of older horses .. and her form is surging forward somewhat and doesn't seem likely to tail off.


Still ... Rachel Alexandra's accomplishments are very comparable with SBD's to this stage of their careers.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Still ... Rachel Alexandra's accomplishments are very comparable with SBD's to this stage of their careers.

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

Well put. Against who matters. As does fractions faced.

[tector]

I think SBD and the second best 3YO filly that year avoided each other--Excellent Meeting, both trained by Baffert. They did go head to head in the BC as 2YOs, however.

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so. Nor do I recall her winning a race against older fillies (but my memory could be suspect). But she danced every dance against fillies of her generation.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by tector

I think SBD and the second best 3YO filly that year avoided each other--Excellent Meeting, both trained by Baffert. They did go head to head in the BC as 2YOs, however.

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so. Nor do I recall her winning a race against older fillies (but my memory could be suspect). But she danced every dance against fillies of her generation.

Silver Bullet Day did race against the boys in the Belmont, 4th I think.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by tector

Did SBD ever race against colts? I don't think so.

Yes - in fact - she is the single reason why Charismatic didn't win the triple crown.

As he dueled head to head with her the whole way and pinned her inside - and it helped that Stephen Got Even made a premature middle move in the Belmont.

Silverbulletday's Belmont was as good an effort as RA's Preakness ... and RA ran five lengths better than anyone else in her Preakness win.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Accomplishments or Beyer figures?

Sure, their graded stakes tallies may be similar and their Beyers may be similar but based on accomplishments they are vastly different in my opinion.

NT

Why - you think Silverbulletday faced better fillies and better colts? .. I'd obviously agree that she did.

However, you can't take away from the quality of RA's performances.

[tector]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes - in fact - she is the single reason why Charismatic didn't win the triple crown.

As he dueled head to head with her the whole way and pinned her inside - and it helped that Stephen Got Even made a premature middle move in the Belmont.

Silverbulletday's Belmont was as good an effort as RA's Preakness ... and RA ran five lengths better than anyone else in her Preakness win.

I forgot that Belmont. I remember Excellent Meeting in the prior two TC races but lost that one, thanks.

[King Glorious]

Tough call. I'd lean towards Rachel but not by a whole lot.

On a side note, when thinking of Rachel's Preakness effort vs. SBD's Belmont effort, it makes me think of Winning Colors' Preakness. That was one of the best performances I've ever seen from a filly. When you consider the quality of the horse (Forty Niner) that tried to take her out of her game and how she put him away and still held for third, it was very good.

[smuthg]

I actually was just thinking if you could say that the trio of Rachel, Zenyatta and Goldikova are the best group of fillies/mares that have ever been racing at the same time (I guess you could argue that the Zarkarva, Zenyatta and Goldikova trio is a push depending on how you weigh the Zarkarva v. Rachel debate) but have we ever seen the female division this loaded at the top?

Don't you have to go back to Miesque, Winning Colors and Personal Ensign to even find anything close?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why - you think Silverbulletday faced better fillies and better colts? .. I'd obviously agree that she did.

However, you can't take away from the quality of RA's performances.

I didn't realize Dreams Gallore was that good. Or the Happy Hopper, Marley Vale and the rest of the horses Silverbulletday beat.

You may not think much of who Rachel Alexandra has beaten this year, but her two wins against males are both better than any of Silverbulletday's wins up to August 1, 1999. The idea that Rachel's Preakness is on par with Silverbulletday's Belmont seems silly to me.

Of course it also remains to be seen if Rachel will suffer the same abrupt decline SBD did when she became Roza Robata and Lu Ravi's whipping girl.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I didn't realize Dreams Gallore was that good. Or the Happy Hopper, Marley Vale and the rest of the horses Silverbulletday beat.

Those fillies are light years better than the fillies RA has faced ... and they aren't even among the three or four best SBD faced. Kind of amusing you left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring.

Who are the ok fillies RA has faced? Besides Sara Louise anyway.


By the way, Excellent Meeting and Three Ring both were as good or better than Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, or Musket Man.

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Silly to me, too.

You don't remember Silverbulletday's Belmont?

She basically dueled head-to-head with Charismatic (a sharp horse off of 3 straight wins) through a vicious 1:36 2/5th mile . while pinned down inside.

Stephen Got Even - a horse who ran a 120 Beyer and is probably best known for siring champion 2yo Stevie Wonderboy and ML Derby favorite I Want Revenge - he made a middle move to ensure both SBD and Charismatic could take no breather.

After 10 furlongs, Silverbulletday was still down inside fighting for the lead in a time equal to about a 110 Beyer. She did falter late from the pressure at a distance beyond her best.

Menifee, who is no bum at all, was kept up close to the pace and was so out of gas that he finished 7.5 lengths behind SBD but still beat several lesser horses home.

In Menifee's very next start, he once again was kept close to the pace - and he won the Haskell over that years Breeders Cup Classic winner.

Only a moron can watch Silverbulletday's race in the Belmont and not see that it was VERY impressive.

She single handedly saved the sport from Lukas winning a triple crown with a former claimer ... and she ran out of her mind through pressure from good horses for just over 10fs before understandably quitting.

If you don't think her race was good ... you probably think Menifee is a mere allowance horse who should have been 60/1 in the Haskell.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

I should probably correct that.

Munnings has sprint races that fit with those horses.

[KirisClown]

Why did Silverbulletday scratch out of the Preakness?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Those fillies are light years better than the fillies RA has faced ... and they aren't even among the three or four best SBD faced. Kind of amusing you left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring.

Who are the ok fillies RA has faced? Besides Sara Louise anyway.


By the way, Excellent Meeting and Three Ring both were as good or better than Mine That Bird, Summer Bird, or Musket Man.

Horses like Charistmatic, Stephen Got Even, Lemond Drop Kid, and Menifee were all light years better than any male RA has ever faced.

I left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring because she didn't face them as a 3YO. I'm not denying that SBD's accomplishments as a 2YO were far superior to Rachel's but I think Rachel's 3YO accomplishments vs. SBD's 3YO accomplishments give her the edge overall.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Why did Silverbulletday scratch out of the Preakness?

Because she won the Black Eyed Susan the day before?

And did so with a higher figure than Charismatic got for winning the Preakness ... but she pretty much got no real pressure on the front end and won under a moderate hand ride.

That is the reason why Chris Antley couldn't let Silverbulletday have her way on the lead in the Belmont. Tough luck for him than Stephen Got Even didn't let him and the filly catch a mid-race breather.

If SBD doesn't run in the Belmont, Charismatic would have certainly won the triple crown.

In fact, the way Charismatic ran that day ... there's a good chance he might have won the triple crown if he didn't press SBD but kept a close eye on her and wore her down in the final furlong.

I've seen bad horses like Da Tara run big in the Belmont though when allowed to have it all there own way .. you can't blame him for taking the fight to her and pinning her.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I left out Excellent Meeting and Three Ring because she didn't face them as a 3YO. I'm not denying that SBD's accomplishments as a 2YO were far superior to Rachel's but I think Rachel's 3YO accomplishments vs. SBD's 3YO accomplishments give her the edge overall.

True ... but I compared their careers through Aug of age 3 .. not just the 3-year-old seasons.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Only a moron can watch Silverbulletday's race in the Belmont and not see that it was VERY impressive.

Attach the chart for this race, if you have it. I'd like to see what it looks like.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Because she won the Black Eyed Susan the day before?

Didn't she opt out of the Preakness because she drew post 14?