Showing Up vs. Barbaro (on the grass)

miraja2 · #1 08-14-2006, 05:32 PM

What do you guys think....would Showing Up have been competitive with Barbaro on the turf? He has looked mighty impressive in his two starts, but my initial reaction to the question is.....no. Showing Up is a very good colt. Barbaro was a freak.

#2 08-14-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

What do you guys think....would Showing Up have been competitive with Barbaro on the turf? He has looked mighty impressive in his two starts, but my initial reaction to the question is.....no. Showing Up is a very good colt. Barbaro was a freak.

Again, a question that doesnt even deserve to be debated. We will never know, you can argue your case for each one and it truly doesnt matter.

#3 08-14-2006, 06:01 PM

you know I'm not sure how many times they would have met considering they are owned by the same people...the derby yeah, but other than that? Probably not. But yeah I think Showing Up is very nice and could hang w/ Barabro on turf, giving the edge to Big B.

Danzig · #4 08-14-2006, 06:28 PM

ya know, when i was a kid, i used to pick at scabs..

miraja2 · #5 08-14-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Again, a question that doesnt even deserve to be debated. We will never know, you can argue your case for each one and it truly doesnt matter.

Why doesn't it deserve to be debated? I like hypotheticals like this. Of course it doesn't really matter, but I think it makes for interesting discussion. All of those "hypothetical derby" threads were nothing but pure speculation, but I found them all interesting. Some people like hypothetical matchups and other people don't. I understand those that think they are pointless, but I think they are kind of fun.

And yeah, they had the same owners but that didn't stop them from meeting on dirt. Riva Ridge and Big Red had the same owner AND trainer but they still squared off.

Suffolk Shippers · #6 08-14-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Again, a question that doesnt even deserve to be debated. We will never know, you can argue your case for each one and it truly doesnt matter.

amen my friend

Cajungator26 · #7 08-14-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

Why doesn't it deserve to be debated? I like hypotheticals like this. Of course it doesn't really matter, but I think it makes for interesting discussion. All of those "hypothetical derby" threads were nothing but pure speculation, but I found them all interesting. Some people like hypothetical matchups and other people don't. I understand those that think they are pointless, but I think they are kind of fun.

And yeah, they had the same owners but that didn't stop them from meeting on dirt. Riva Ridge and Big Red had the same owner AND trainer but they still squared off.

It's not that it doesn't deserve to be debated, but why even try? Barbaro will never run again, so IMO it's not fair to him to debate such a thing. I would have loved to have seen them both on the turf, but it will never happen. By the way, I believe Barbaro was the better horse on the turf. His high action spoke for itself.

#8 08-14-2006, 08:36 PM

yeah but there were not as many stake races back then when Riva Ridge and Secretariat ran...now I'm sure they would find different spots for the two to run, they did face on dirt, but it was the derby, like I said, it was the DERBY
to play devil's advocate~
I'll take Showing Up at a price
in your hypothetical match-race on turf

Nostradamus · #9 08-14-2006, 08:51 PM

I think Barbaro would beat Showing Up by 3 on dirt and 3 on the grass. Showing Up actually might have finished second in the derby if he has a little more racing under him. No way Barbaro would have beaten him by 10 if he was rested instead of racing off two weeks rest. My brother said this weekend they are very serious about trying him in the BC Classic instead of the BC Turf.

miraja2 · #10 08-14-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

IMy brother said this weekend they are very serious about trying him in the BC Classic instead of the BC Turf.

If that is true I think it is crazy. The horse was good on dirt, but come on, he took a big step up when they switched him.
I think SU would be closer to Barbaro on turf than he would have been/was on dirt. They were probably both better on the lawn, but I think SU is MUCH better on the turf than the dirt, while Barbaro was only a little bit better.

Nostradamus · #11 08-14-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

If that is true I think it is crazy. The horse was good on dirt, but come on, he took a big step up when they switched him.
I think SU would be closer to Barbaro on turf than he would have been/was on dirt. They were probably both better on the lawn, but I think SU is MUCH better on the turf than the dirt, while Barbaro was only a little bit better.

I agree but Showing Up is not the same horse he was in May. He is bigger and stronger and he was good on the dirt back then too so they have to try him on the dirt again at some point. His only loss was the KY Derby. They have to be thinking stud fees and a good showing on the dirt would set him up nicely for 2008. I wonder if he wants to go 12F on the turf against europeans anyway. Other than Bernardini and Invasor I don't see any dirt horse to run from. Worse horses have won the BC Classic with the right trip.

miraja2 · #12 08-14-2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

I agree but Showing Up is not the same horse he was in May. He is bigger and stronger and he was good on the dirt back then too so they have to try him on the dirt again at some point. His only loss was the KY Derby. They have to be thinking stud fees and a good showing on the dirt would set him up nicely for 2008. I wonder if he wants to go 12F on the turf against europeans anyway. Other than Bernardini and Invasor I don't see any dirt horse to run from. Worse horses have won the BC Classic with the right trip.

He already has a G2 win on the dirt so I don't know if they have to switch him back to dirt for stud fees. You are probably right in saying that he is better now on any surface than he was in the spring but as long as he keeps winning on the grass I see no reason to switch him.
I think both BC races will be pretty tough, and since I don't think Deep Impact or Hurricane Run are going to be coming over for the BC, his main competition may come from the horses that were in Chicago on Saturday. I am not saying he would beat those, but I think maybe he could.

sham · #13 08-14-2006, 10:39 PM

No less than Barclay Tagg himself said he did not want his horse chasing Barbaro. He also said that Barbaro's performance in the Laurel Futurity as a 2yo was the best he'd seen since Secretariat. The trainer of Showing Up has provided the answer to the question. And, Barbaro was much better on grass than dirt is the opinion of his trainer, exercise rider, and most anybody else that saw the horse run on grass. I think the reason Barbaro looked so superior in the Derby had more to do with that Dynaformer stamina thus being the only true 10fl horse in the race, than his actually being much better on dirt than the other top five or so horses that ran in the Derby.