ramon and rajiv

[gales0678]

Ramon - bad ride in the 7th

Maragh - terrible ride in the last at NY

both on favorites

can someone help these guys to give better rides? maybe some lessons from Angel in the am's will help

[Gauchos0522]

That's funny, Ramon just passed Angel for 2nd most wins in NY in a year today.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

That's funny, Ramon just passed Angel for 2nd most wins in NY in a year today.

that doesn't mean anything when you get the best mounts everyday

he should go to angel and learn how to ride better

i don't know which ride was worse , today on JJ's horse or Gio Ponit in the BCC

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by gales0678

that doesn't mean anything when you get the best mounts everyday

he should go to angel and learn how to ride better

i don't know which ride was worse , today on JJ's horse or Gio Ponit in the BCC

Wrong on both accounts. If you really think that Ramon Dominguez gets the best mounts you don't follow NY racing too closely. He is not the 1st call rider for any of the strongest barns but picks up a lot of 2nd fiddle mounts for some of the better ones. He rides a lot of races, which a lot of the mainstays don't anymore because of their age or feelings about their own prowess as riders.

And for the umpteenth f*ing time, his ride on Gio Ponti was flawless.

NT

[hockey2315]

Wait what part of the ride on Gio Ponti was bad?

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by gales0678

that doesn't mean anything when you get the best mounts everyday

he should go to angel and learn how to ride better

i don't know which ride was worse , today on JJ's horse or Gio Ponit in the BCC

The ride he gave Gio Ponti wins that race 99% of the time if not for a fantastic horse like Zenyatta. You know Smith actually followed Dominguez in that race into the stretch right? I'm not sure what you want these guys to do. They both have been nothing short of spectacular on a daily basis. Ramon gets very good mounts because he is the best there is right now. People said he only would do well at Aqueduct because of the weak colony, and he then went on to dominate at Belmont and Saratoga. You don't have one of the greatest years in NY history as a jockey without being a fantastic rider. Sorry they don't cut it for you.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Wait what part of the ride on Gio Ponti was bad?

Gales has this half-baked ridiculous idea that the inside was terrible and Ramon should have deliberately tried to move GP outside. He even went so far as to call Dominguez an "inner dirt specialist" even though he won the riding titles at Belmont spring-summer, Saratoga, and the Belmont Fall Championship meet.

It's again worth noting that plenty of horse who were successful raced on the inside on BC Saturday.

NT

[eajinabi]

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet.

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

There is no way you can compare either of those guys to Ramon. Who exactly are the "top level" riders that Ramon just couldn't stack up with? Just curious.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

Drugs, did you follow him and Rose in Delaware before he came every day to New York. The two of them were pretty even at Del. Park but it does seem that Ramon makes smoother and smarter decisions than he did consistently on that circuit. It's very rare that you see him lose a race now he could have won when you watch the replay. He used to force things occasionally and get himself in places patience would have solved. But this is splitting hairs. He's certainly no liability on anyone's horse now. They don't give away those Saratoga titles for being any less than first rate. It's great to see how well respected he is now. I am not so sure that Rose wouldn't have been right there with him if not for that unfortunate incident that cost him on so many levels a couple years back.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think Dominguez was always a lot better than Rose.

Dominguez is one of very few jocks that is a real difference maker when he rides a turf route.

Dominguez in turf routes since '99: 437-for-1,832 (23.9% wins) $2.37 ROI

Pretty scary numbers for a jockey. If you simply bet $100 to win on every turf route Ramon has ridden since '99 .. you'd be ahead $33,892 right now.


Rose is an excellent turf jockey as well ... lifetime $1.98 ROI in turf routes .. but Dominguez was a freak. 8 out of 10 years from '99 to '08 he turned a flat bet profit.. and very significant flat bet profits in 6 of those 8 years.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by Gauchos0522

There is no way you can compare either of those guys to Ramon. Who exactly are the "top level" riders that Ramon just couldn't stack up with? Just curious.

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez. Its nice that Dominguez wins jockey title after jockey title but when the big days come he is a no-show. The jockeys mentioned above dont win jockey titles like dominguez but when the big races come they consistently show up and produce winners.

Dominguez did win the Saratoga title but Castellano, Garcia, Prado, Maragh and Desourmaux each had more stakes win than he. For a guy that rides as many races and who wins that many races, his graded stakes wins are very minimal. To his credit, he is very young and has an eternity to move to the top.

He is the Steve Nash of horse racing: Great in the regular season but no-show in the playoffs

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Yes he has.

He's a no brainer if you're talking about the top 5 in the country.

He's probably the best turf jockey of the last 20 years.

And I can assure you that he's no better a rider now than he was 5 years ago.

Not sure he is the best turf rider in the last 20 yrs. That is a hyperbole. I have heard that about every other jockey being touted as one.

Also, Leparoux hasnt even been riding for 5 yrs in the states and yet he has achieved more than Dominguez. At this point, you can argue if Dominguez is better than Russel Baze or not.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

I like Ramon Dominguez and I do appreciate his riding but he hasnt reached the top level yet. Unless you can compete in big races and win consistently at the top then you havent arrived yet. He is not the only one though. There are a lot of jockeys who are way overated and get more credit than they actually deserve. Aaron Gryder and Richard Migliore are some to be mentioned.

I don't understand where these two names came from. Gryder is trying to grind it out on the West coast and the Mig has been back and forth between both coasts and he only gets a few mounts a day. I just don't get the comparison.

[Gauchos0522]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

For Example: Gomez, Desormaux, Mike Smith, Edgar Prado, Leparoux, Bejarano are some who for sure rank highr than Dominguez. Its nice that Dominguez wins jockey title after jockey title but when the big days come he is a no-show. The jockeys mentioned above dont win jockey titles like dominguez but when the big races come they consistently show up and produce winners.

Dominguez did win the Saratoga title but Castellano, Garcia, Prado, Maragh and Desourmaux each had more stakes win than he. For a guy that rides as many races and who wins that many races, his graded stakes wins are very minimal. To his credit, he is very young and has an eternity to move to the top.

He is the Steve Nash of horse racing: Great in the regular season but no-show in the playoffs

Wouldn't this be more of a function of an agent getting good stakes mounts for a rider? He does have 5 or 6 G1's this year in races like the Arlington Million and Man O War so it's not as though he is just non-exsistent as you're implying. And I think he had the most stakes wins at Saratoga if I'm not mistaken (not just graded stakes but all stakes). Agree to disagree but IMO he is the best you can do right now in terms of riders in any race.

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I don't understand where these two names came from. Gryder is trying to grind it out on the West coast and the Mig has been back and forth between both coasts and he only gets a few mounts a day. I just don't get the comparison.

The comparison is that Migliore and Gryder use to dominate the AQU riding title (like Dominguez does now) years back but when the big jockeys show up for Belmont and Saratoga, they are a no-show, especialy in big races (like Dominguez is now)

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

The comparison is that Migliore and Gryder use to dominate the AQU riding title (like Dominguez does now) years back but when the big jockeys show up for Belmont and Saratoga, they are a no-show, especialy in big races (like Dominguez is now)

What are you talking about? Dominguez won the Saratoga riding title and set the record for wins at the spring-summer Belmont meet.

The argument you're trying to make could have been made in April when Dominguez was JUST an inner track specialist. He has proven this year that he can ride all over the NY circuit.

The very fact that you put Bejarano and Prado ahead of Dominguez is laughable. Prado is one notch above a joke at this stage in his career.

NT

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by eajinabi

The comparison is that Migliore and Gryder use to dominate the AQU riding title (like Dominguez does now) years back but when the big jockeys show up for Belmont and Saratoga, they are a no-show, especialy in big races (like Dominguez is now)

Hasn't Ramon won every meet in NY this year (including Saratoga)?

[eajinabi]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

What are you talking about? Dominguez won the Saratoga riding title and set the record for wins at the spring-summer Belmont meet.

The argument you're trying to make could have been made in April when Dominguez was JUST an inner track specialist. He has proven this year that he can ride all over the NY circuit.

The very fact that you put Bejarano and Prado ahead of Dominguez is laughable. Prado is one notch above a joke at this stage in his career.

NT

Who cares about setting win records. Russel Baze does it year after year. Do you consider him one of the better jockeys today???

Just take a look at the Money Earned and Races Won list on the DRF page. Dominguez is third moneywise not because of Graded Stakes but because he racks up Claiming MSW and ALW wins. Gomez, Leparoux, Garcia, Desourmaux
are on the list because they rack up graded stakes. Dominguez is by no means a horrible jockey but he is not a top tier rider yet.