Lets hope Halladay is a playoff stud like Lee

[Antitrust32]

Phillies getting Halladay and trading Cliff Lee. Aparently, the Phillies were not getting anywhere with Lee in extention talks, and Lee was going to test the FA market after next season.

Phillies would have about a 0% chance of signing Lee in FA and Lee was asking for $23m per year and no home team discount.

This deal is based on a multi-year deal with Halladay.

As much as it saddens me to see Cliff Lee go.. If he wasnt going to sign long term, getting Halladay for 3-4 years is the right deal.

Besides, at last years mid season trade deadline.. nobody was saying Cliff Lee was the best pitcher in baseball.. that accolade went to Halladay.

I just hope Halladay can do even 75% as good as Lee in the playoffs.

Its a given if he stays healthy Halladay is going to tear up the NL.

[Cannon Shell]

Id like to see the actual deal

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Phillies getting Halladay and trading Cliff Lee. Aparently, the Phillies were not getting anywhere with Lee in extention talks, and Lee was going to test the FA market after next season.

Phillies would have about a 0% chance of signing Lee in FA and Lee was asking for $23m per year and no home team discount.

This deal is based on a multi-year deal with Halladay.

As much as it saddens me to see Cliff Lee go.. If he wasnt going to sign long term, getting Halladay for 3-4 years is the right deal.

Besides, at last years mid season trade deadline.. nobody was saying Cliff Lee was the best pitcher in baseball.. that accolade went to Halladay.

I just hope Halladay can do even 75% as good as Lee in the playoffs.

Its a given if he stays healthy Halladay is going to tear up the NL.

Reguardless, they are still in the same spot. Substitute Halladay for Lee and they win the same amount of games in the Series. Now if they were able to get Roy and not trade Lee that would be a horse of a different color. Going forward it's a good move because they are upgrading the spot slightly (Lee was excellent for them but I think Halladay is a better pitcher) and locking up Halladay for 4 years. But they are still in the same position with the rest of the staff. Not to mention what the closer situation will be.
Who knows, Happ could be a stud but I have to see more out of him after Charlie Manuel didn't have enough faith to pitch him in the series. I guess Hamels could rebound after last year. Blanton, is mediocore. Then you have Pedro and Moyer. It just seems like they didn't need to address the #1, it was the depth that needed fixing. Plus they lost Drabek too (not sure about the prospects they are getting).

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Reguardless, they are still in the same spot. Substitute Halladay for Lee and they win the same amount of games in the Series. Now if they were able to get Roy and not trade Lee that would be a horse of a different color. Going forward it's a good move because they are upgrading the spot slightly (Lee was excellent for them but I think Halladay is a better pitcher) and locking up Halladay for 4 years. But they are still in the same position with the rest of the staff. Not to mention what the closer situation will be.
Who knows, Happ could be a stud but I have to see more out of him after Charlie Manuel didn't have enough faith to pitch him in the series. I guess Hamels could rebound after last year. Blanton, is mediocore. Then you have Pedro and Moyer. It just seems like they didn't need to address the #1, it was the depth that needed fixing. Plus they lost Drabek too (not sure about the prospects they are getting).

i agree the only difference in the playoffs is Roy can go 3 games in a 7 game series and Phils wouldnt do that with Lee.

They are really basing this move on a faith in cole hamels, he's the key. if he becomes the 2008 version having hamels pitch 3 games and roy 3 in a 7 game series is tough.

Cliff Lee is only $9 mil next year. Its unbelievable on the philly message boards the fans are begging ownership to just charge $3 more per ticket and pay for Lee. LOL

[Gander]

The Phillies are still by far the 2nd best team in baseball and its going to take a lot from somebody else to have a different world series matchup next year. I can't remember a time when the 1 and 2 teams are this much better than the rest. They may as well start selling tickets now.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Gander

The Phillies are still by far the 2nd best team in baseball and its going to take a lot from somebody else to have a different world series matchup next year. I can't remember a time when the 1 and 2 teams are this much better than the rest. They may as well start selling tickets now.

I think the Red Sox have addressed a need and probably will make at least one more major move. Something like re-signing Bay or trading for Adrian Gonzalez. They have some trading chips so I do think something else will be done. The Yanks need another arm, I'm just not sold on Joba or Hughes going back into the rotation. Add that to Andy Pettite who's not getting any younger and it could end up dooming them this year.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

I think the Red Sox have addressed a need and probably will make at least one more major move. Something like re-signing Bay or trading for Adrian Gonzalez. They have some trading chips so I do think something else will be done. The Yanks need another arm, I'm just not sold on Joba or Hughes going back into the rotation. Add that to Andy Pettite who's not getting any younger and it could end up dooming them this year.

Red Sox are pretty much officially out of the Bay chase, and that really stinks because they need hitters, specifically power hitters. They arent going to beat the Yankees with singles! I like their pitching rotation slightly better than the Yankees but not enough to think at this point they are any better than a 2nd place team. As far as Joba goes, I think hes a better reliever. I dont think he has the temperment to be a starter and you take away his raw power of just coming in and throwing 15-20 pitches and he becomes incredibly average.

[SniperSB23]

I can't believe they gave Lee up to not pay him $9 million. If Seattle falls out of contention they will get better prospects trading Lee at the All Star break then the Phillies gave up in trading him now. Really strange and cheap move, don't get it at all. Could have understood it if they had to give up Lee to keep Taylor and Drabek but can't understand it in this context.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I can't believe they gave Lee up to not pay him $9 million. If Seattle falls out of contention they will get better prospects trading Lee at the All Star break then the Phillies gave up in trading him now. Really strange and cheap move, don't get it at all. Could have understood it if they had to give up Lee to keep Taylor and Drabek but can't understand it in this context.

i agree. 9 freaking million is nothing for a player like Cliff Lee.

If anything they would get two draft picks for him at FA next year.

All because they were fuc.king idiots and gave Jamie Moyer a 2 year 18 mil deal.

Just man up and pay 9 mil. You had 102% attendence for the year PLUS playoff home games. They can afford it.

Bad move but they said they needed to do it to fill up a depleted minor league system.. which was one of the best last year and now had nobody but Dominic Brown and this Phillipe canadian pitcher dude.

Way to be cheapo's!

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i agree. 9 freaking million is nothing for a player like Cliff Lee.

If anything they would get two draft picks for him at FA next year.

All because they were fuc.king idiots and gave Jamie Moyer a 2 year 18 mil deal.

Just man up and pay 9 mil. You had 102% attendence for the year PLUS playoff home games. They can afford it.

Bad move but they said they needed to do it to fill up a depleted minor league system.. which was one of the best last year and now had nobody but Dominic Brown and this Phillipe canadian pitcher dude.

Way to be cheapo's!

Didn't it also have something to do with their chances of re-signing Lee after next year? I guess the idea of getting Halladay now before you have to potentially overpay in free agency won out.

Kyle Drabek has already had Tommy John surgery, so one has to wonder if he might just be a #3 prospect, as Tim Kurkjian said on ESPN this morning.

It seemed like Halladay was basically begging them to trade for him and I'm confident he's a better pitcher than Cliff Lee.

NT

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Didn't it also have something to do with their chances of re-signing Lee after next year? I guess the idea of getting Halladay now before you have to potentially overpay in free agency won out.

Kyle Drabek has already had Tommy John surgery, so one has to wonder if he might just be a #3 prospect, as Tim Kurkjian said on ESPN this morning.

It seemed like Halladay was basically begging them to trade for him and I'm confident he's a better pitcher than Cliff Lee.

NT

If all goes well with Halladay he'll be there for 4 years $80 million. I have a hard time believing the Phillies would have had any difficulty getting an extension with Lee if they were willing to talk those sort of numbers. Wouldn't you rather pay Halladay money to Lee and keep your prospects? 6'6" 250 lb guys that can run the bases and don't strike out often don't grow on trees.

Cheapest part of this deal is that the Phillies got $6 million from the Blue Jays in it. If anything they should cut prices to their season ticket holders for being so cheap.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If all goes well with Halladay he'll be there for 4 years $80 million. I have a hard time believing the Phillies would have had any difficulty getting an extension with Lee if they were willing to talk those sort of numbers. Wouldn't you rather pay Halladay money to Lee and keep your prospects? 6'6" 250 lb guys that can run the bases and don't strike out often don't grow on trees.

Cheapest part of this deal is that the Phillies got $6 million from the Blue Jays in it. If anything they should cut prices to their season ticket holders for being so cheap.

I think the Phillies did the right thing. Halladay is better than Lee despite what Lee did in the post season last year. Halladay was willing to sign long term...Lee wasn't. My guess is Lee wouldn't have signed with the Phillies. The Mariners got a good pitcher cheap for one year and are legitimate contenders this year with Felix/Lee 1-2 in the rotation. And if it doesn't work, the Mariners can get prospects back that they traded for Lee at the trading deadline. It made sense all the way around for all teams.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Didn't it also have something to do with their chances of re-signing Lee after next year? I guess the idea of getting Halladay now before you have to potentially overpay in free agency won out.

Kyle Drabek has already had Tommy John surgery, so one has to wonder if he might just be a #3 prospect, as Tim Kurkjian said on ESPN this morning.

It seemed like Halladay was basically begging them to trade for him and I'm confident he's a better pitcher than Cliff Lee.

NT

Yes, but the Lee trade to Seattle ended up having no players from that go to Toronto, so they could have got Halladay anyway.

Even if your chances on signing Lee next year are slim, if you wait and trade him during the season at the trading deadline I bet you'd get better prospects... and even if you just lose him next year you still get two draft picks cause he's a type A free agent.

And 9 million gets you Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ as your rotation for a whole year and a clear favorite to win the world series.

They Phillies staff said they had to make the trade to fill up their now depleted farm.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Yes, but the Lee trade to Seattle ended up having no players from that go to Toronto, so they could have got Halladay anyway.

Even if your chances on signing Lee next year are slim, if you wait and trade him during the season at the trading deadline I bet you'd get better prospects... and even if you just lose him next year you still get two draft picks cause he's a type A free agent.

And 9 million gets you Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ as your rotation for a whole year and a clear favorite to win the world series.

They Phillies staff said they had to make the trade to fill up their now depleted farm.

Yeah, but if gets hurt or stinks they would be screwed. Also if they were for some reason out of the playoff race (which is most unlikely) then they would be the team getting leveraged. If they were in it, they would simply keep him.
All that being said, with the team that they have I would have kept Lee and went for it. They are built to win now, I'll worry about the future/prospects 2 years from now.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

The reason they didn't get one nice overlapping year with a minimum of 2 allstar starting pitchers is what? , or The rest of the league would like to thank the Philly management.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

The reason they didn't get one nice overlapping year with a minimum of 2 allstar starting pitchers is what? , or The rest of the league would like to thank the Philly management.

99% . The prospects they got back for Lee are not top of the line guys. The fact that Toronto gave them $6 million in the trade makes it even more unforgivable.

Sniper-zero chance lee signs a deal like Halladay did. He is going to want a long term deal with a whole lot more guaranteed money. Halladay's signing for a far below market rate may be the bigest surprise of all.

[Smooth Operator]

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

Don't Fret Smooth dude, at least you still have USC!

Oh Wait.........................

















THUD!

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Looks like Amaro and Montgomery are developing the same LOSER mentality that the local pro football team with ZERO rings has.


UNBELIEVABLE



REAL Philly sports fans wanted them to find a way to keep you in red and white, Cliff.

Thanks for that STELLAR performance last season.

Good luck, bro…

You know what Booth, you really have no clue dont you?

Comparing the Phillies to the Eagles is an insult to everyone in Red. So they traded a guy they werent going to be able to sign and helped rebuild the farm. they also signed THE BEST PITCHER IN BASEBALL for the next FOUR years!!!!

It would have been incredible to keep Lee... the screwed up by givng Moyer a two year contract. **** happens. We have Polanco instead of Feliz. At this very moment we are a slightly BETTER team than last year... oh by the way we won the past two pennants and a world series. and we are better now. Roy Halladay is every teams wet dream and he's a proven AL East Killer.

So while of course all of us fans would have loved to keep Lee.. that means we would NOT have Halladay (they werent going to do the deal without getting some prospects back). and in 2011 Hamels would be our #1 guy and we'd have no Lee or Halladay.

Get a grip.. dont get so tough on the team who is the best in the NL and the favorites to go back to the series the THIRD time in a row!

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Yeah, but if gets hurt or stinks they would be screwed. Also if they were for some reason out of the playoff race (which is most unlikely) then they would be the team getting leveraged. If they were in it, they would simply keep him.
All that being said, with the team that they have I would have kept Lee and went for it. They are built to win now, I'll worry about the future/prospects 2 years from now.

You mean as opposed to if that happens with Halladay!!! Halladay gets hit by a bus tomorrow and is in a wheelchair the rest of his life and they are out $60 million plus the buyout for the option. That happens to Cliff Lee and they are out $9 million. You can't justify certain moves on the worst case scenario while ignoring the worst case scenario for other moves.