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#1
12-22-2009, 08:17 AM
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Thoro-Graph year-end free data promo & Q/A thread
Reminder that again this year, Jerry Brown and the staff at Thoro-Graph are happy to reward their customers, and possible new TG users, with free data the last week of the year. If you don't have a Thoro-Graph account, sign up for one (costs nothing) and you can download all figures 12/26-12/31 free.
It's an outstanding opportunity to utilize the data and get a chance to learn how sheet figure methodology works and can help you identify possible overlays and underlays based on performance figure patterns. The last couple of years, we have kept a "TG new user" thread open to help those that are curious about the info and how to apply it to their handicapping and play. Feel free to ask about Thoro-Graph figs, patterns and their methodology here, and any of the TG users here will be happy to try to help answer them... THORO-GRAPH
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans 
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#3
12-22-2009, 07:24 PM
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Thoro-Graph vs. Ragozin
What's the basic difference between the Thoro-Graph and Ragozin number?
I know there is a difference in the methodology, but the Ragozin system seems to emphasize the actual distance that a horse ran and the race conditions on that day. (I typically use Beyer figures or Equibase ratings in handicapping).
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#5
12-22-2009, 07:45 PM
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Correlation
These numbers don't seem to correlate from race to race though. One number goes higher from Race 1 to 2 while the other is lower.
It seems like there is much more variability in the Thoro-graph figure as compared to the Ragozin number from race to race. Last edited by keithting : 12-22-2009 at 08:22 PM.
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#6
12-22-2009, 07:53 PM
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huh?
TG numbers tend to be tighter than Ragozin numbers. They are FAR more prone to splitting variants and cutting races loose.
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#8
12-22-2009, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
While my experience is heavily skewed towards Thor-Graph, the methodologies are very similar. Both take ground loss most seriously in their figure making, and Thoro-Graph considers weight a great deal. TG also will factor windy days into figures. As Doug mentions above, Jerry Brown at TG is very quick to acknowledge changes in conditions over the course of a day, and will split variants. He will not force numbers on races just so they fit with everything else over the course of the card.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#9
12-22-2009, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Like Steve just said - they both use the same adjustments for weight, the same adjustments for ground loss, I would assume the same data for wind corrections .. the difference between the two is in the days race track variant. Ragozin is far less likely to split variants or cut races loose. I don't prefer either method. On a very tough day to make numbers - I might write down in my trip notes something like "Tough day for figure making. this figure might be as high as a 79 .. could be as low as 71." On an easy day I'll put "Easy day for making figs. cut and dry figure of 62 for winner" The commerical figure makers have to come up with one number - because they're selling ... and you don't see any indicators of how easy or tough a day it was to make numbers. Speed figures are an amazing tool for comparing horses from circuit-to-circuit and comparing horses from different time periods. However, they're a sometimes very overrated betting tool - unless you have great strength in all other areas of handicapping and good analytical skills... they won't help you win by themselves.
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#10
12-22-2009, 08:37 PM
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I am analytical and like using numbers, but it seems to me that Thoro-Graph and Ragozin are better for telling what a horse's capability is on a given day.
I'm more comfortable just using Beyers numbers and recent workouts to determine what a horse is likely to run on that day. I guess I just need more experience using these other handicapping tools. Thanks again.....
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#12
12-24-2011, 11:04 PM
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Thats a good deal. I will have to read the tutorial on how use them
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#14
12-25-2012, 10:37 AM
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Combined the TG holiday threads with Q/A's from last 3 years. Promo starts with Wednesday's great Boxing Day action!
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#16
12-25-2012, 07:30 PM
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I would love to give it a week trial before deciding if I can use in my handicapping tools. Not sure if this offer is still good, and how to sign up to receive the week trial. I sign up on the TG site as a user but dont know the next steps to get the info.
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#17
12-25-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Once registered, click on the "BUY TG DATA" tab in upper left column. An order graphic appears that then let's you pick date you want to see and the track you're selecting. The Sheets are full individual pages and Thoro-Quick are more abbreviated but in some ways easier to grasp. To get a feel for things overall, start with the RACE OF THE WEEK (The Malibu) info that explain methodology and gives a written synopsis of the horses in the race and what their figures say about their development and likelihood for success in the race. Check back here if you have any trouble or other questions... But this should get you going.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#18
12-25-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
That's great. I'll pass that on to Jerry as he does this more to thank existing users than to develop new ones. As I've said repeatedly and obviously agree, between the performance figs and Sire/Trainer Stats, the info is invaluable.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#19
12-25-2012, 09:47 PM
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Thank you for the info. I'm going to give it some serious thought to learn the figures. If there is any other links to better understanding there use, please send it over this way. I'm going to check TGs site for any content they have 1st. Thanks again!! Merry XMAS!!
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#20
12-25-2012, 10:12 PM
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Had to have been 6 or 7 years ago this promotion turned me into a regular user.
Well worth taking advantage of it.
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