Anybody See the 6th at Laurel Today?

[Rupert Pupkin]

There is a really nice 3 year old colt named Cowboy Gets Even that ran in the 6th race today at Laurel. It is unbelievable that this horse won with all the trouble he had. He was 2 lengths back going down the backstretch but then he checked twice on the far turn. Before you know it, he is dead last and 10 lengths back at the 1/4 pole. It looked like he was totally eliminated and he still won the race.

Assuming he came out of the race in one piece and assuming they don't rush him back too soon, this horse could end up on the Derby trail.

[blackthroatedwind]

Here's another version of what happened....

He was two or so lengths behind THREE duelers after one quarter. He dropped about six back as those three sped away to the half. He steadied two to maybe three lengths back on the inside nearing the three quarters to fall about 8 1/2 to nine lengths back. He eased out after saving ground and ran down the leaders who covered the final quarter in 27.10 seconds. He did go about 25 3/5 for his final quarter, and was easily best, but he was also 30 cents to the dollar and beat some very slow horses.

There are no trips in slow races.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Nice thing to watch visually ... but he still needs to improve a great deal further.

In his debut, he was beaten by a NY Bred that sold for a whopping 2K as a yearling.

He was 30 cents on a dollar for a reason today.

The horse who finished 2nd to him today was beaten 10 lengths at Penn National last time out .. the winner of the race he was beat 10Ls in is 1-for-7 and was defeated at the MCL 15 level in his prior start.

[ArlJim78]

I didn't see the race but looking at the field it was very weak.

[blackthroatedwind]

The maiden that won the 2nd at Aqueduct would beat him by a city block....at 1:5.....and nobody is getting all revved up about him.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Just like your namesake .. that horse is also sired by Tapit and ran a Beyer in the low 60's in his debut.

Once a horse runs 5th in it's debut at Delaware Park .. and gets beat twice at Philly back to back ... it forms a strong revved-up over maiden win repellent.

Lightly raced slowpoke horses with prettier records are viewed as much sexier for some reason. As I know you know.

[Rupert Pupkin]

It's how they do it. It's not how fast they run. I don't pay much attention to speed figures.

It's the same thing at the 2 year old sales. I'd much rather have a good mover that works :10 2/5 than an ugly mover that works :10.

I actually thought that this colt worked really good at FT Calder even though he only worked :10 4/5. He's a great mover. And he worked awesome at Timonium. I thought he was in the top 2-3 best horses in the sale.

[hockey2315]

It's not how fast they run?

You can have the pretty looking ones that prance around at the back of the pack. . . I'll take the ones who get to the wire first.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It's how they do it. It's not how fast they run. I don't pay much attention to speed figures.

Thanks for the tip.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It's how they do it. It's not how fast they run. I don't pay much attention to speed figures.

I'm willing to bet I could find a post of yours on this board that quotes a speed figure when it conveniently backs up the supposed talents of some horse you are backing.

Once again....there are no trips in slow races.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm willing to bet I could find a post of yours on this board that quotes a speed figure when it conveniently backs up the supposed talents of some horse you are backing.

Once again....there are no trips in slow races.

I pay very little attention to speed figures in my handicapping. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that I've never discussed speed figures.

[the_fat_man]

Looks like the jock might've dropped the whip late, as well.


Any chance we can get Quinonez to watch this replay and see how a MALE JOCK finishes a race with a perfect setup?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Here's another version of what happened....

He was two or so lengths behind THREE duelers after one quarter. He dropped about six back as those three sped away to the half. He steadied two to maybe three lengths back on the inside nearing the three quarters to fall about 8 1/2 to nine lengths back. He eased out after saving ground and ran down the leaders who covered the final quarter in 27.10 seconds. He did go about 25 3/5 for his final quarter, and was easily best, but he was also 30 cents to the dollar and beat some very slow horses.

There are no trips in slow races.

He only dropped 6 lengths back after he checked the first time. He fell 10 lengths back after he checked sharply the second time. The horse was literally 10 back at the 5/16th pole.

I agree with you that he beat bad horses. But I think he would have won by 8-9 lengths if he would have drawn an outside post. If he drew an outside post, he wouldn't have been in tight and checked twice. I don't think he would have ever fallen more than 3 lengths back without the trouble.

Since you like speed figures, I will talk speed figures. He ran a 77 Beyer first time out sprinting. I think that's a reasonable number for a big, long striding Stephen Got Even colt who is not a sprinter. He only had a handful of half-mile works going into that race and he drew the rail. He had everything going against him in that race and he ran a decent 2nd. Under the circumstances, I think running a 77 Beyer that day was a decent number. He's not the kind of horse that I would have expected to run a 90 Beyer first-time out sprinting.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He only dropped 6 lengths back after he checked the first time. He fell 10 lengths back after he checked sharply the second time. The horse was literally 10 back at the 5/16th pole.

I agree with you that he beat bad horses. But I think he would have won by 8-9 lengths if he would have drawn an outside post. If he drew an outside post, he wouldn't have been in tight and checked twice. I don't think he would have ever fallen more than 3 lengths back without the trouble.

Since you like speed figures, I will talk speed figures. He ran a 77 Beyer first time out sprinting. I think that's a reasonable number for a big, long striding Stephen Got Even colt who is not a sprinter. He only had a handful of half-mile works going into that race and he drew the rail. He had everything going against him in that race and he ran a decent 2nd. Under the circumstances, I think running a 77 Beyer that day was a decent number. He's not the kind of horse that I would have expected to run a 90 Beyer first-time out sprinting.

Your missing the point... The trip is meaningless.. Nobody is saying the colt cant be OK in the future just that at this time he hasn't shown enough speed to make anyone believe he has G1 abilty?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

He only dropped 6 lengths back after he checked the first time. He fell 10 lengths back after he checked sharply the second time. The horse was literally 10 back at the 5/16th pole.

This is not correct, and will be obvious to anybody that watches the race, and you are making up things to suit your agenda with this horse. I get it. People do this all the time to convince themselves to like a horse more than they should. Kind of like making up excuses for a girlfriend or boyfriend that you don't want to believe is the jerk that it is readily apparent that they are.

[slotdirt]

Who is this blackthroatedwind character?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

This is not correct, and will be obvious to anybody that watches the race, and you are making up things to suit your agenda with this horse. I get it. People do this all the time to convince themselves to like a horse more than they should. Kind of like making up excuses for a girlfriend or boyfriend that you don't want to believe is the jerk that it is readily apparent that they are.

So you think he fell 6 lengths back because he simply didn't have the speed to stay close? He didn't have enough speed to stay within 2-3 lengths of a :48 half? You think the fastest this horse can run a half is :49? In his debut, he stayed within 5 lengths of a :46 half.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

So you think he fell 6 lengths back because he simply didn't have the speed to stay close? He didn't have enough speed to stay within 2-3 lengths of a :48 half? You think the fastest this horse can run a half is :49? In his debut, he stayed within 5 lengths of a :46 half.

I didn't say why he dropped off.....I simply implied it wasn't because he checked. He was mildly tight, and I mean mildly, when they hit the exact start of the turn, but that almost always happens to an inside horse when they are lined up at that point ( which I'm sure you know ).

If I had to guess why he dropped off it was because the jockey ( wisely ) didn't feel a need to go after three horses vying for the lead, so the horse probably dropped back naturally. It isn't as thought the rider was either particularly urging or restraining him....he just seemed to be riding him. If, in fact, he could have stayed closer ( sorry, but we don't know this ), it might not be unfair to say that in retrospect he should have tried to extracate himself form the other horses, but that's in hindsight knowing he was forced to steady.

Look, you got me to waste ten minutes of my life viewing the pan and head-on a few times. I suggest you do the same.

He might improve, but getting excited about his race yesterday doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Your missing the point... The trip is meaningless.. Nobody is saying the colt cant be OK in the future just that at this time he hasn't shown enough speed to make anyone believe he has G1 abilty?

There are a ton of stakes horses that did not run "fast" early in their careers. I've got the PPs for the Breeders Cup in front of me. Summer Bird debuted as a 3 year old in March at Oaklawn. He got beat by a length and he ran a 65 Beyer. In his next race, he won and he ran a 78 Beyer.

Mine That Bird was winning stakes races at Woodbine in September and October of his 2 year old year. In his wins in September and October he got 77 and 78 Beyers. When he broke his maiden in August, he only got a 71 Beyer.

When Noble's Promise broke his maiden in September, he got a 73 Beyer. Piscitelli got a 63 Beyer first-time out in July when he ran 2nd beaten a head. He came back and won and got a 72 Beyer.

Crown of Thorns got a 72 first-time out in December right before he turned 3. Biofuel got a 55 Beyer when she broke her maiden first-time out in July. Da' Funnybone won by 7 lengths first-time out but he only got a 70 Beyer (granted that was in May of his 2 year old year). The list goes on and on.

With any one of those horses, if you would have made a post about them, you would have had the numbers guys telling you that those horses were "slow".

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I didn't say why he dropped off.....I simply implied it wasn't because he checked. He was mildly tight, and I mean mildly, when they hit the exact start of the turn, but that almost always happens to an inside horse when they are lined up at that point ( which I'm sure you know ).

If I had to guess why he dropped off it was because the jockey ( wisely ) didn't feel a need to go after three horses vying for the lead, so the horse probably dropped back naturally. It isn't as thought the rider was either particularly urging or restraining him....he just seemed to be riding him. If, in fact, he could have stayed closer ( sorry, but we don't know this ), it might not be unfair to say that in retrospect he should have tried to extracate himself form the other horses, but that's in hindsight knowing he was forced to steady.

Look, you got me to waste ten minutes of my life viewing the pan and head-on a few times. I suggest you do the same.

He might improve, but getting excited about his race yesterday doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I did watch both the pan and the head-on several times. I agree with alot of what you're saying. The second check was severe. The first check was only slight. The horse actually probably checked himself somewhat because he was in so tight. But I still view that as trouble and something that cost the horse position. And the 2nd check was obviously severe and was something that most horses would not recover from.

With an outside post, I think the horse would have won by 9-10 lengths.