Baffert, McAnally & Co. on Zenyatta

[CSC]

Cribbed From SantaAnita.com Apr 11, 2010

“She’s so much better on the dirt,” continued Baffert, who is preparing 2-year-old champion Lookin At Lucky for the Kentucky Derby on May 1. “When you get them on the dirt, they can really show their brilliance. He (Mike Smith) never turned her loose. You could run her back next week. She earned what, $300,000, to work a mile and an eighth in 1:50? She can run in 1:48.”

“I’m absolutely amazed that Zenyatta’s done everything you would have asked of her,” said Hall of Fame trainer McAnally,
“I think Shirreffs has done a marvelous job with her, spacing her races and doing the right thing with her. I liked Zenyatta against Rachel Alexandra before the (Horse of the Year) voting and I liked her after the voting. I thought the Eastern voters made a big mistake making Rachel the Horse of the Year. The people back East have more votes than they have out here and I think they realize now that they made a huge mistake.

“I know Rachel wasn’t fit enough to win her first out in New Orleans this year. I could see the handwriting on the wall right from the beginning. But even had she been fit and they ran together tomorrow in the Apple Blossom, to me there’s no question that Zenyatta would have beaten her.” “I really thought that Rachel Alexandra deserved Horse of the Year, but at the same time, I never had any doubt in my mind, and I don’t even need to see them run against each other, to know that she’s not as good as Zenyatta,” said veteran trainer Paul Aguirre, who saddled Malibu Artiste to win Wednesday’s fourth race.

“I’ve been around racing 30 years. There are things a lot of us trainers don’t know, but we all know a freak when we see a freak, and Zenyatta stands head and shoulders above all the horses I’ve ever seen.”

“I always thought Zenyatta would beat Rachel Alexandra on any surface, as long as it wasn’t in a match race, where Rachel would get an easy lead,” offered trainer Vladimir Cerin. “Zenyatta should have been Horse of the Year in 2009, because what she accomplished last year was enough to make her one of the all-time great race mares. Rachel Alexandra accomplished a lot, but we don’t know if she’s one of the all-time greats. So if you’re one of the all-time greats, and the other one is or isn’t, you should be Horse of the Year, no question about it.

“I’d like to see Rachel Alexandra do well and I’d love to see them compete against each other, but obviously, they’re afraid of Zenyatta and they’re not going to run against her.” “Rachel Alexandra is a wonderful, beautiful, lovely filly, but I think Zenyatta is far superior,” said Kathy Walsh, a successful trainer for more than four decades. “But by the same token, I think Rachel Alexandra ran against a class of 3-year-olds that maybe were sub par last year, maybe not. None of them jumped up real strong after she beat them, and the older horses she beat in the Woodward seemed to go downhill afterwards.

“But Zenyatta took on the best in the world and won as she pleased. Opinions are going to be East versus West, and that’s never going to change. I was in Hot Springs recently and the arguments were about which horse was best, but I’ll tell you this: they were all waiting for Zenyatta to come there.”

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Baffert and Z are one in the same

[CSC]

Baffert, Z and Steve Crist? "Zenyatta, a transcendently great horse who handles everything and is probably as good or better on dirt than on synthetics."

[10 pnt move up]

I have no comment on the quotes as I am sure if you polled the trainers at CD you would get the same response ragarding the other filly but.......

there is no doubt she moves much better on dirt. She slips around on the plastic stuff. I wish the Woodward was 10F on the main at Belmont, that would be the ideal race for her IMO.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I have no comment on the quotes as I am sure if you polled the trainers at CD you would get the same response ragarding the other filly but.......

there is no doubt she moves much better on dirt. She slips around on the plastic stuff. I wish the Woodward was 10F on the main at Belmont, that would be the ideal race for her IMO.

I agree completely but remember there is a 10f dirt race at Belmont four weeks after the Woodward. That'd be a great spot to prep for the BC.

NT

[CSC]

The Stephen Foster makes alot of sense on alot of fronts, it's 2 months away, it's a Gr.1 at 1 1/8th, on a track she should take to with her breeding. Plus the added advantage that is where the Classic will be run this year. I don't see the point of her carrying 130lbs against her own kind if she continues to run under handicap conditions against fillies and mares, so this is as good a spot as any.

[zippyneedsawin]

Originally Posted by CSC

Cribbed From SantaAnita.com Apr 11, 2010

“I always thought Zenyatta would beat Rachel Alexandra on any surface, as long as it wasn’t in a match race, where Rachel would get an easy lead,” offered trainer Vladimir Cerin. “Zenyatta should have been Horse of the Year in 2009, because what she accomplished last year was enough to make her one of the all-time great race mares. Rachel Alexandra accomplished a lot, but we don’t know if she’s one of the all-time greats. So if you’re one of the all-time greats, and the other one is or isn’t, you should be Horse of the Year, no question about it.

This is where Zenyatta supports lose their argument everytime. There's no doubt Zenyatta is great and has had a great career.. but she didn't have a better year than Rachel in 2009.. and that's all that should matter in HOY voting. This debate over who's better will never end.. even if the two actually face each other.. because you know the losing side (mainly the fans) will have their excuses ready. I think they're both great.. and have gained more and more respect for Z since the BC. Let's hope they both have a full racing season in 2010.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by CSC

The Stephen Foster makes alot of sense on alot of fronts, it's 2 months away, it's a Gr.1 at 1 1/8th, on a track she should take to with her breeding. Plus the added advantage that is where the Classic will be run this year. I don't see the point of her carrying 130lbs against her own kind if she continues to run under handicap conditions against fillies and mares, so this is as good a spot as any.

Its a logical spot but not really the way Shirreffs operates. He runs his horses in good form in logical spots but gets them to peak for certain efforts, I assume sometime in late may or june they start looking for "prep" spots in an effort to peak for the classic.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

This is where Zenyatta supports lose their argument everytime. There's no doubt Zenyatta is great and has had a great career.. but she didn't have a better year than Rachel in 2009.. and that's all that should matter in HOY voting. This debate over who's better will never end.. even if the two actually face each other.. because you know the losing side (mainly the fans) will have their excuses ready. I think they're both great.. and have gained more and more respect for Z since the BC. Let's hope they both have a full racing season in 2010.

Yeah, the HOY discussion is something that has happened, it wasn't the wrong decision by any means. Either way you would have one dissenting group, one happy group of people. This year I think Moss is out to prove just how good Zenyatta is, as I said last year, there is no point in running her against fillies and mares in So Cal unless it is a last prep going into the Classic. What I would do is strike while she is doing good and that seems to be now, there are so many things that can happen between now and November when she will be nearing the age of 7. That is why I would point her for The Stephen Foster on June 12, it's the perfect challenge for her right now, the focus should be beating males and not Rachel.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

He (Mike Smith) never turned her loose. You could run her back next week. She earned what, $300,000, to work a mile and an eighth in 1:50? She can run in 1:48.”

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Its a logical spot but not really the way Shirreffs operates. He runs his horses in good form in logical spots but gets them to peak for certain efforts, I assume sometime in late may or june they start looking for "prep" spots in an effort to peak for the classic.

It's hard to second guess anything Sheriff's has done to this point, my intuition tells me Zenyatta will excel at Churchill Downs if they do choose to run in the Foster, it could be one of those defining career performances. One reason I am confident is I look at Street Cry and Street Sense's races at CD. The relation to Zenyatta is not far fetched.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

I thought you would be constructing a thread how Zardana would have beaten Zenyatta by now rather than concentrating on Baffert's comments, maybe Steve can arrange to have you and Bobby on at same time so you can ask him exactly that.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I have as much respect for Baffert's handicapping opinions as he has for my training opinions.

Here's RA's Kentucky Oaks win: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNkBuJtds58

She won it under even less urging than Zenyatta needed in the Apple Blossom.

Now ... instead of taking repeated looks back and "gearing down" RA .. lets say that Borel had hit RA with the whip 25 times through the stretch and he was riding her all-out with desperation.

Do you think that would have made her run any more than say maybe 1/5th of a second faster? Of course not.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

By the way, it is faulty to think both horses make up are identical. Rachel runs hard all the time, it doesn't matter if she wins by 20 or by a neck, she only knows one way to run. I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

Just because one has tactical speed and one is a closer doesn't mean one is running harder than the other.

[The Bid]

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

This has been up for over two hours now and still no one has mocked the incredible stupidity of it.

I feel like turning my login back over to PG '85 for good.

Had Smith put her to an all-out drive she might have been able to run 1/5th of a second faster.

It's the same type of complete stupidity as those who felt Rachel Alexandra would have run any faster in the Oaks or Mother Goose had Borel hit her with the whip instead of "gearing her down" the whole stretch run.

Never being asked and being whipped after being in a drive from the turn are not exactly the same thing. You, and the others that support this view, really need to STOP misinforming the public. Too many people pay attention to what you write and you're just wrong here. The way horses are ridden affects how fast they run. Think about this next time your jock is unable to put your horse in a drive.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think by now we would have learned that speed figs don't apply to a horse like Zenyatta, she does what is necessary to win and she did just that in the AB, well within herself.

I think by now you'd be tapped out if someone gave you a 500K bankroll to bet with two years ago.

Horses don't "do what is necessary to win"

She's one unlucky nose bob from losing to Anabaa's Creations.

Almost every horse gets beat at one time or another.

Her record is a product of how good she is versus how carefully she's been managed and how good her opposition has been.

She's very good - her trainer has done a masterful job of putting her in the easiest spots and having her most cranked up for her home court Breeders Cup Races - and other than about 3 or 4 races her competition has been a total joke.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by The Bid

A speed figure holds zero merit w/ a horse like zenyatta. She's passing whatever is in front of her. If it's rachel running a 110 zenyatta runs a 111. If it's some crow running 88 she runs an 89. A horse like zenyatta it makes no difference how fast the opposition runs. What figure is established is inconsequential to her greatness.

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

[prudery]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Let's say you replaced Anabaa's Creations with Dale Jr's stock car?

Does she still get up and win by a nose?

If so ... could she run down a stealth jet?

Have you run out of reason as well as Razidine ????

And you are dead wrong that horses do not " do what is necessary to win "

Native Dancer did just that, and if Arcaro was alive he would tell you that .

The horse did not respond to being put to a drive until he was ready, and was notorious for cutting his finishes either fine or exactly to his liking .

I have no comment on your handicappping skills, but your knowledge of the horse itself sucketh ...