Un MOTHER F'n BELIEVABLE - Full Tilt

[Scav]

Haven't gone off in a while so here we go

So I have 8.70 in my full tilt account, I play a satellitte to get a $26 token...I qualify.

I am playing in the 20k guarantee, make the cut so I am collecting. I have like 35k in chips(like 15th place) and I get dealt the dreaded AA, 33 people are left right now...If I double up here, puts me in 6th place, which means I could have made the final table and 7th was paying 1k...

Board is 9s-6s-4h, SAFE for AsAh, I raise hefty amount, I GET RAISED by this LOOSE player, I obviously go all in, he flips over 9-K, i am like YES..

Next Card

Oh wouldn't you believe a mother f'n K, King of spades though so at least I had 10 outs at the river, river is the rag of all rags.

guy has 6 outs and still screws me, I was like 85/15 I figure...so I get like $86 for my time and guess how long that lasted...um 8 minutes

F'n mother f'n AA, I hate that friggin hand

[hockey2315]

Pokerstars is about 100x worse for that kind of stuff. . . not for something that is statistically possible like that guy catching the king, but something like a guy all in with AK with a 10 on the board and catching J and Q on the turn and river. . . I feel your pain

[miraja2]

I hate aces too. I want a hand that I can get away from. People play so loose nowadays....calling and raising with draws and top pairs, that aces get busted a lot. Give me 8-9 suited any day over the dreaded AA.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I hate aces too. I want a hand that I can get away from. People play so loose nowadays....calling and raising with draws and top pairs, that aces get busted a lot. Give me 8-9 suited any day over the dreaded AA.

In a full-ring limit game AA will hold up something like 11 out of 20 times.

A few days ago, I was playing limit and I'm the BB. Real loose game and by the time it got to L1, it was capped and by the time it got to me there were 8 people still in. I figured at least 7, besides me, to the flop. I folded . This has happened to me several times and I'm convinced it's the right thing to do as it's hugely unlikely I can improve (other A's already out, I figure) and with that many in, I'm gonna lose to a set or flopped 2-pair.

Comments?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

In a full-ring limit game AA will hold up something like 11 out of 20 times.

A few days ago, I was playing limit and I'm the BB. Real loose game and by the time it got to L1, it was capped and by the time it got to me there were 8 people still in. I figured at least 7, besides me, to the flop. I folded . This has happened to me several times and I'm convinced it's the right thing to do as it's hugely unlikely I can improve (other A's already out, I figure) and with that many in, I'm gonna lose to a set or flopped 2-pair.

Comments?

Interesting philosophy there and I am guessing it is different for a ring game compared to tourney, something to really think about...Limit games on the net are borderline insane, it is the reason why NL online has become popular

In a tourney, it is an automatic all in pre-flop if you raise and get raised, that was my mistake from last night, I should have just taken what I had their, but the guy had position on me so he just called, plus the he had about 15k more in chips then me so he would have probably been pot committed

You on Full Tilt bruce?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Scav

Interesting philosophy there and I am guessing it is different for a ring game compared to tourney, something to really think about...Limit games on the net are borderline insane, it is the reason why NL online has become popular

In a tourney, it is an automatic all in pre-flop if you raise and get raised, that was my mistake from last night, I should have just taken what I had their, but the guy had position on me so he just called, plus the he had about 15k more in chips then me so he would have probably been pot committed

You on Full Tilt bruce?

P-Stars, Tom.

95% of the time I'm playing heads up SnG's NL. The $50 and up are all solid players, but I'm crushing the $20's. 61% over the past 2 years. (52.5% is BE). Play about 1 hour a day, usually 3-4 games. It's the grocery money. I'm barely even playing 3/6 limit. Between being barely even and needing the time to be as patient as needed, I don't play it much. Full ring or tourney NL is not my thing. I'm no good at it.

[shanej974]

NEVER, EVER fold A-A preflop in a limit ring game. You have the best starting hand and are the preflop favorite no matter how many other players are in. In fact, you should want the betting capped because you will win more often then anyone else and the pots will be larger. Yes, your aces will get cracked more often with more players in, but that will be offset by the large pots you win when your aces hold up. If the betting isn't capped then you should keep raising. The only time it would be reasonable to fold A-A is in a tournament when other players are all-in against each other and the elimination of one will put you in the money or place you higher if you're already in the money. Extreme example: you're at the final table of a tournament and it's down to 3 players. You're the small stack and the other 2 players have huge stacks. You're in the BB with A-A. The button raises all in and the small blind calls. You should fold your aces here. Ideally the larger of the 2 big stacks will knock out the other player and you have just moved up to 2nd place money. Obviously the size of the stacks is a determining factor on whether to muck your aces or not. Back to the limit ring game. If you fold A-A preflop then you're invited to play at my table any day of the week.

[slotdirt]

This gets me thinking that I'm hitting Vegas next month, and while I dabble in poker, I'm certainly not an experienced player. SHould I even bother with the tables there?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

P-Stars, Tom.

95% of the time I'm playing heads up SnG's NL. The $50 and up are all solid players, but I'm crushing the $20's. 61% over the past 2 years. (52.5% is BE). Play about 1 hour a day, usually 3-4 games. It's the grocery money. I'm barely even playing 3/6 limit. Between being barely even and needing the time to be as patient as needed, I don't play it much. Full ring or tourney NL is not my thing. I'm no good at it.

Might have to look into those on Tilt, their are some unbelievable sucka's on their.

Not one of these poker players have felt a rush like a horse player. I absolutlely love what TV has done to the poker world because like Matasow said on ESPN the other night, NONE of these kids/people that want to play cards for a living have a clue what it takes, or how it feels. Horse players, have experienced everything. Like those A's getting cracked yesterday, while it felt like a inquiry on a 5/1 horse you had $100 on, ish happens, live for another day. To a TV card player, it would have been like an asteroid hit him square in the melon.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

In a full-ring limit game AA will hold up something like 11 out of 20 times.

A few days ago, I was playing limit and I'm the BB. Real loose game and by the time it got to L1, it was capped and by the time it got to me there were 8 people still in. I figured at least 7, besides me, to the flop. I folded . This has happened to me several times and I'm convinced it's the right thing to do as it's hugely unlikely I can improve (other A's already out, I figure) and with that many in, I'm gonna lose to a set or flopped 2-pair.

Comments?

I'm hardly an expert, but I have played a lot of limit online. I've been beating the 3-6 games very steadily for 3 years.

I think folding AA as you did was a big mistake. You cannot assume in a loose game that the other aces are out just because there are a lot of callers. Even if they are out, that's 2 opponents who you will be dominating massively. In addition, your 2 aces give you 2 ways to make the nut flush when 4-of-a-suit are on the board.

You are going to get beat most of the time, but you are probably getting 3 or 4-1 odds to the end, so you only have to win a little more than 25% of the time to show a profit. Your aces will hold up that often.

--Dunbar

[GPK]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

This gets me thinking that I'm hitting Vegas next month, and while I dabble in poker, I'm certainly not an experienced player. SHould I even bother with the tables there?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....unless you are willing to sit at a No Limit table. If you sit at a $2-$4 or $4-$8 peckerheads call EVERYTHING....chase EVERYTHING...it's maddening...

[Scav]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

This gets me thinking that I'm hitting Vegas next month, and while I dabble in poker, I'm certainly not an experienced player. SHould I even bother with the tables there?

yes, sucka like crazy, I am a huge fan of the 1-2NL games out there at anywhere but the Bellagio, real sharp players are over their because that is where all the fishes end up

I am aggressive as hell and play any two cards. If I had to describe my game, it would be like Gus Hansen.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by GPK

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....unless you are willing to sit at a No Limit table. If you sit at a $2-$4 or $4-$8 peckerheads call EVERYTHING....chase EVERYTHING...it's maddening...

yeah, only NL tables in Vegas, don't touch the limit games unless you are playing 50/100 limit

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by shanej974

NEVER, EVER fold A-A preflop in a limit ring game. You have the best starting hand and are the preflop favorite no matter how many other players are in. In fact, you should want the betting capped because you will win more often then anyone else and the pots will be larger. Yes, your aces will get cracked more often with more players in, but that will be offset by the large pots you win when your aces hold up. If the betting isn't capped then you should keep raising. The only time it would be reasonable to fold A-A is in a tournament when other players are all-in against each other and the elimination of one will put you in the money or place you higher if you're already in the money. Extreme example: you're at the final table of a tournament and it's down to 3 players. You're the small stack and the other 2 players have huge stacks. You're in the BB with A-A. The button raises all in and the small blind calls. You should fold your aces here. Ideally the larger of the 2 big stacks will knock out the other player and you have just moved up to 2nd place money. Obviously the size of the stacks is a determining factor on whether to muck your aces or not. Back to the limit ring game. If you fold A-A preflop then you're invited to play at my table any day of the week.

Thanks for the backhanded insult.

Ok, genius, tell me the odds of AA holding up with:
8 players
7 players
6 players

Assume both A's are out, then assume 1 A out, then assume none out.

[Scav]

For the record, last night was a very good night playing cards. I qualified for the 200k guarantee this Sunday with only $26 and I have like $18 in their now to play a couple more $8.70's to get a couple tokens

Hopefully I win the 200k guaranteed on Sunday (roughly 35k payout) so I can quit this job and take the year off, and find a good job

[shanej974]

Take it easy. Not a backhanded insult at all, just a friendly jibe. Ask any poker expert if you should EVER fold A-A in a limit ring game and the answer will be no. It doesn't take a genius to know that. A-A is the best hand with no help and also the best drawing hand. You're the preflop favorite with that hand no matter how many opponents you have. You asked what the odds are of A-A holding up against 8, 7, or 6 players, but that is irrevelant. Your odds are better then any of the other players and the idea is to get your money in when you have the best of it. Refer also to Dunbar's post above. I've been playing poker in live games, tournaments, and online for over 15 years. I've also read all of the books out there. If you don't want advice or friendly criticism, then don't ask for it.

Back to the original post, you should be calling with almost any reasonably good starting hand in this situation (certainly A-A is a reasonably good starting hand). The pot odds are so high that very few hands will not have a positive return. You also don't have to worry about being raised again before the flop.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by shanej974

Take it easy. Not a backhanded insult at all, just a friendly jibe. Ask any poker expert if you should EVER fold A-A in a limit ring game and the answer will be no. It doesn't take a genius to know that. A-A is the best hand with no help and also the best drawing hand. You're the preflop favorite with that hand no matter how many opponents you have. You asked what the odds are of A-A holding up against 8, 7, or 6 players, but that is irrevelant. Your odds are better then any of the other players and the idea is to get your money in when you have the best of it. Refer also to Dunbar's post above. I've been playing poker in live games, tournaments, and online for over 15 years. I've also read all of the books out there. If you don't want advice or friendly criticism, then don't ask for it.

Back to the original post, you should be calling with almost any reasonably good starting hand in this situation (certainly A-A is a reasonably good starting hand). The pot odds are so high that very few hands will not have a positive return. You also don't have to worry about being raised again before the flop.

Completely agree with Shane.

Originally Posted by shanej974

This gets me thinking that I'm hitting Vegas next month, and while I dabble in poker, I'm certainly not an experienced player. SHould I even bother with the tables there?

Not unless you enjoy losing money. That said, there are worse ways to lose $40 than taking a stab at Las Vegas poker games.

Originally Posted by GPK

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....unless you are willing to sit at a No Limit table. If you sit at a $2-$4 or $4-$8 peckerheads call EVERYTHING....chase EVERYTHING...it's maddening...

Originally Posted by Scav

yeah, only NL tables in Vegas, don't touch the limit games unless you are playing 50/100 limit

Huh?! That limit game description sounds wonderful to me. Are you saying you don't like it when players call with weak hands and chase when the pot odds don't warrant it? You'd rather they fold when they're supposed to?

In poker, you only make money when your opponents make mistakes. You should be thrilled when players call with awful hands.

--Dunbar

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by shanej974

Take it easy. Not a backhanded insult at all, just a friendly jibe. Ask any poker expert if you should EVER fold A-A in a limit ring game and the answer will be no. It doesn't take a genius to know that. A-A is the best hand with no help and also the best drawing hand. You're the preflop favorite with that hand no matter how many opponents you have. You asked what the odds are of A-A holding up against 8, 7, or 6 players, but that is irrevelant. Your odds are better then any of the other players and the idea is to get your money in when you have the best of it. Refer also to Dunbar's post above. I've been playing poker in live games, tournaments, and online for over 15 years. I've also read all of the books out there. If you don't want advice or friendly criticism, then don't ask for it.

Back to the original post, you should be calling with almost any reasonably good starting hand in this situation (certainly A-A is a reasonably good starting hand). The pot odds are so high that very few hands will not have a positive return. You also don't have to worry about being raised again before the flop.

Points fairly well taken, aside from it being the best drawing hand.... 55-1 to make a flush, I believe. Next time it happens, I'll fold. Good luck.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Completely agree with Shane.



Not unless you enjoy losing money. That said, there are worse ways to lose $40 than taking a stab at Las Vegas poker games.





Huh?! That limit game description sounds wonderful to me. Are you saying you don't like it when players call with weak hands and chase when the pot odds don't warrant it? You'd rather they fold when they're supposed to?

In poker, you only make money when your opponents make mistakes. You should be thrilled when players call with awful hands.

--Dunbar

Just going by my personal experience what game worked best for me. The wins are nice, but the bad beats are way too frustrating....felt like going all Hellmuth on them last time I was there.

[jp96stang]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Thanks for the backhanded insult.

Ok, genius, tell me the odds of AA holding up with:
8 players
7 players
6 players

Assume both A's are out, then assume 1 A out, then assume none out.

34.7%
38.8%
43.6%

Your thought process is all wrong here!! You can not assume anything!! you go with what you know and what you know is that you have AA. Do you make assumptions when figuring your odds on any kind of draw? Stick with the known facts. AA is the favorite hand whether you are heads up or against 9 others. Folding preflop is simply playing scared!! Also one is not a very good player if they can't get away from any hand post flop. And this is where the problem is for most players. They can play pre-flop but have no clue post flop and this is where i make a killing!!