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#1
06-22-2010, 03:42 PM
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John Shirreffs two best mares before Zenyatta
Manistique:
At Hollywood Park: 6-for-6 lifetime with 4 Graded Stakes wins. Those 6 wins coming by a combined 40.5 lengths for an AVG margin of victory of 6.75 lengths per win. Ran a mind-boggling 110 Beyer in her debut win at HP going 7 furlongs. At Santa Anita: 5-for-5 lifetime with all 5 wins in Graded Stakes company. Lifetime record in California: 12-11-1-0 - with 9 Graded Stakes wins. Beat future Eclipse champion older mares Riboletta and Gourmet Girl - both on multiple occasions. Shipped out of So. Cal three different times ... finished 6.25 lengths behind Banshee Breeze in the Alabama, finished 10.75 lengths behind Banshee Breeze in the Apple Blossom, and finished 14.25 lengths behind Beautiful Pleasure in the BC Distaff.  Starrer: Finished her career with 3 straight huge stakes scores out West for Shirreffs. Including back to back Grade 1 wins where she toyed with You in the Santa Maria and toyed with Sightseek in the Santa Margarita. She was 2nd to Azeri in the Lady's Secret for her last So. Cal loss  As uninspiring as Manistique's and Starrer's form are when Shirreffs had them leave Cal ... does anyone really think either horse would have gone down to Taptam or Brownie Points? 
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#2
06-22-2010, 03:54 PM
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"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize"...Voltaire
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#3
06-22-2010, 04:06 PM
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I think it's probably an understatement to say Manistique wasn't a good shipper.
Shireffs was a great trainer in 1999 ... he won 40% of his races that year on a brutally tough year round circuit and had his 4th straight profitable ROI on the betting dollar year. He was doing things with first-time-starters that I know I'll never see again. I would think 505 put pressure on him to win early - because once 505 was gone ... Shirreffs started to radically change his style of training. He's no longer even a good debut trainer ... let alone possibly the greatest to ever live. It would have been interesting to see if Manistique was developed more slowly like Zenyatta was - instead of cranked up to peak from the outset.
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#4
06-22-2010, 04:07 PM
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Out of curiosity, has Shirreffs won a race in NY before?
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#5
06-22-2010, 04:20 PM
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I don't think so.
He's only shipped 8 different horses that I can think of. He shipped Bertrando twice and was beaen 12 lengths in the Woodward and 25 lengths in the NYRA Mile. He shipped Cliquot - who was 3rd to Adonis in the Wood. He shipped After Market - who just missed as the favorite to Trippi's Storm in the Kelso. He shipped Giacomo - who made that menacing move in the Belmont and stopped to a walk in the stretch He also ran Tiago in the Belmont - who plugged along for 3rd Hollywood Story got crushed in the BC Distaff at Belmont. Manistique and Starrer both were beat soundly at Saratoga.
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#6
06-22-2010, 04:29 PM
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who trained Colonel John? (I guess I just assumed sheriffs but I could be completely wrong)
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#7
06-22-2010, 04:30 PM
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Harty
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#8
06-22-2010, 04:40 PM
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As much as I like watching Cal racing and betting it, these two only continue to prove my point that it is easier for a standout to dominate the highest levels in California because it's out on an island. Very few shippers as opposed to a Kentucky or New York where the potential talent pool is deeper and the probability of a horse maintaining a long win streak dips significantly.
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please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
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#9
06-22-2010, 04:40 PM
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Doug..
Prove to everyone how aggressive Shirreffs can be spotting his horses... Pull up Hollywood Story.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#10
06-22-2010, 05:01 PM
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Who or what is 505? Excuse the ignorance.
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#11
06-22-2010, 05:04 PM
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Here's her first 17 races: http://www.drf.com/row/pps/hollywoodstory.pdf She ended up shipping three more times after that ... Beaten 22 lengths by Pleasant Home in the Distaff. Beaten 16 by Spun Sugar in the Apple Blossom. Beaten 21 by Round Pond in the Distaff. She was smoked all 5 times she left Cal. You can kind of see why the guy isn't a big fan of shipping all over when he's trying to protect a win/loss record.
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#12
06-22-2010, 05:07 PM
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They gave Shirreffs his first big break and he trained a lot of VERY good horses for them. I believe they gave him Bertrando as a rookie trainer on his own after Frankel refused to train him any more.
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#13
06-22-2010, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans
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#14
06-22-2010, 05:19 PM
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I think Marshall had something to do woth the Movie Business.
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#15
06-22-2010, 05:25 PM
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Bertrando was part-owned by the late Ed Nahem of King Edward Stable and he originally was to train the horse when Frankel declined to. However, he couldn't get a trainer's license and for a while at least, John Shirreffs was considered a "program" trainer.
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#16
06-22-2010, 05:25 PM
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#17
06-22-2010, 05:27 PM
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#18
06-22-2010, 05:27 PM
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Heres a link to the results for the 505 Farm dispersal Sale.
http://barretts.com/SalesResults/results/rs150500.asp I had forgotten a few of these horses that sold that day for Big money PLus I didn't remember 505 having Hook and Ladder when he was 2
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#19
06-22-2010, 05:31 PM
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I think Starrer might be the last horse to ever lose the jockey at the start while an odds on favorite in a Grade 1 race.
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#20
06-22-2010, 05:43 PM
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How about Swept Overboard for just 700K? There's one that eventually shipped East and killed them in the Met Mile two years later: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF55D5ahx1s
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