7/10 (HOL): Hollywood Gold Cup & Triple Bend H. (G1's)

[Kasept]

6th (3:35) Triple Bend H. (G1)

7 Furlongs (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $250,000

1 E Z's Gentleman Pedroza M A 116 L
2 Fantasy Free Berrio O A 114 L
3 M One Rifle Smith M E 117 L
4 Gayego Bejarano R 122
5 Bestdressed Espinoza V 114 L
6 Sangaree Garcia M 116 L
7 My Summer Slew Quinonez A 114 L
8 New Bay Baze T C 114 L



8th (4:35) Hollywood Gold Cup H. (G1)

1 1/4 Miles (All Weather Track) | Open | 3 Year Olds And Up Stakes | Purse: $500,000

1 Cigar Man Talamo J 113 L
2 Compari Smith M E 117 L
3 Awesome Gem Flores D R 116 L
4 Richard's Kid Garcia M 121
5 Tres Borrachos Espinoza V 113 L
6 Rail Trip Bejarano R 123 L
7 Tap It Light Baze T C 114 L

[the_fat_man]

Would love to have seen the, POTENTIAL, Horse of the Year, Quality Road, entered in this race. Shouldn't the, presently, BEST DIRT HORSE in training be able to handle a bunch of turfers and POLY lovers? Why are they forcing the poor horse to run exclusively on dirt? Ship him across the country. Put him on another surface so we can see how a superior horse runs.

[cmorioles]

Yeah, that makes sense, ship a superior dirt horse across the country to run against poly and turf lovers on polyturf. Great plan. As an aside, I don't think Rail Trip is winning that race.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Would love to have seen the, POTENTIAL, Horse of the Year, Quality Road, entered in this race. Shouldn't the, presently, BEST DIRT HORSE in training be able to handle a bunch of turfers and POLY lovers? Why are they forcing the poor horse to run exclusively on dirt? Ship him across the country. Put him on another surface so we can see how a superior horse runs.

Wouldn't it have been easier for the greatest synthetic horse of all time to just pop out of her stall and beat these horses? It's not like it would have been much of a ship.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Now, NTamm, is the preeminent back handed Z supporter online presently. He never misses a chance to bring Z into just about ANY argument, negatively, while insisting that he appreciates her ability.

Way to go, Nick.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Now, NTamm, is the preeminent back handed Z supporter online presently. He never misses a chance to bring Z into just about ANY argument, negatively, while insisting that he appreciates her ability.

Way to go, Nick.

Appreciating her ability and thinking her connections are putting her through a worthless campaign are not mutually exclusive.

You don't have a sound reason for her not running here though, right?

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, that makes sense, ship a superior dirt horse across the country to run against poly and turf lovers on polyturf. Great plan.

In other words, he falls flat on his face on a non speed favoring surface.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Appreciating her ability and thinking her connections are putting her through a worthless campaign are not mutually exclusive.

You don't have a sound reason for her not running here though, right?

NT

I do. They gain NOTHING by running her in that spot, assuming they're objective for coming back was Horse of the Year. They started the year with a two pronged path:

1) Beat the reigning Horse of the Year in OP
and/or
2 Win the Classic again

Since 1 fell through, circumstances beyond their control, they're left with 2.
Explain to me how beating Rail Trip or Richard's Kid helps her?

If she doesn't win the classic, she's not HOTY. If she doesn't do the Classic and wins the GC, she's not HOTY. See a pattern?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I do. They gain NOTHING by running her in that spot, assuming they're objective for coming back was Horse of the Year. They started the year with a two pronged path:

1) Beat the reigning Horse of the Year in OP
and/or
2 Win the Classic again

Since 1 fell through, circumstances beyond their control, they're left with 2.
Explain to me how beating Rail Trip or Richard's Kid helps her?

If she doesn't win the classic, she's not HOTY. If she doesn't do the Classic and wins the GC, she's not HOTY. See a pattern?

So you've bought into the whole "Classic or die" mantra that the Moss/Shirreffs/Zenyatta gang has propagated now. I would have thought that someone with the appreciation of racing you have would recognize that a campaign pointed towards one race doesn't necessarily have to include the easiest stops along the way. When dealing with a seemingly great horse, why take the easy road with 6-7 week (or more) breaks? I blame Pletcher as much as anyone for doing it too.

I can tell you this much, if she was running in races like the GC and Pacific Classic and winning them, a 2nd place finish in the BCC with an upset from a new shooter would still equal a HOTY. You still have to try to build a resume to some extent. One that goes a bit beyond the Vanity and Hirsch IMO.

NT

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

As an aside, I don't think Rail Trip is winning that race.

What's your reasoning behind this?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

In other words, he falls flat on his face on a non speed favoring surface.

I don't think it has anything to do with speed favoring. It is a distinctly DIFFERENT surface. I wouldn't expect him to win if she shipped to Europe to run in a G1 turf race either.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

What's your reasoning behind this?

I haven't been that blown away by his races this year, and I don't think 10f is his best distance either. The track is not playing to his style like it was last year also, in my opinion.

[the_fat_man]

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't think it has anything to do with speed favoring. It is a distinctly DIFFERENT surface. I wouldn't expect him to win if she shipped to Europe to run in a G1 turf race either.

I think it has EVERYTHING to do with speed favoring when it comes to him. That's my point.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

So because they've put her through similarly weak and unimaginative campaigns pre-BC in the last two years it's OK for them to do it again?

If she were my horse we would have logged so many frequent flier miles I'd practically own Tex Sutton. Clearly, I wouldn't have been afraid to lose.

NT

[Indian Charlie]

Wasn't that long ago, really, when the Z connections were almost certain they weren't running in the Classic last year. Now? Now it's the end all.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

So, your argument, now, is that a 6 year old mare needs to put in her most ambitious year of racing to date, then, turn in a good showing in the GC, to get HOTY. If she were my horse and I had your option on #2 above, I'd go with #2 every time. I'm pretty sure, under those circumstances, you'd go for #2 as well. This horse has done enough, IMO. Keep her fit and try dirt at CD.

lol
she's 6, not 16. 17 whole races under her belt...yeah, she's used up. when is she going to get started on her most ambitious year? there's no reason she can't take on males in a race other than the classic...surely you don't subscribe to the 'mares shouldn't take on males' theory? you don't think she'd run harder because it's out of her usual sex? she sure didn't look done in after the classic. besides, the classic alone didn't get her HOY last year, i doubt it alone gets her that this year either.

[Duvalier]

Zenyatta's not in either of these races. Why make every f'kn thread about Zenyatta or Rachel? Same people over and over.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

Zenyatta's not in either of these races.

Isn't that the main complaint?

[Port Conway Lane]

She barely squeaks out a win in the Vanity against a horse who was trounced by males in her previous start and she is supposed to run in the Gold Cup against the best male in California. Makes sense.