Perhaps the best female to race in the last 5 years?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

* Undefeated (which I've learned is supposed to mean something and be a big deal)

* Beat the great Goldikova twice

* Only horse - male or female - to ever finish in front of Goldikova at a mile on a turf course that isn't labeled "soft" or "heavy"

* Beat older males - a field of 16 no less - in the Arc... a 12 furlong race with a $5,522,000 purse

* Won every career start by at least two lengths

Who knows - there's been a lot of very nice females to race over the last five years... and about seven or eight of them aren't easy to seperate.

[Seattleallstar]

we will never know

[Seattleallstar]

but great post drugs, to remind people who are truly the great female horses or horses regardless of sex. So people dont get caught up in the Zenyatta as the best of all time talk.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

we will never know

Well - Zenyatta did beat Citation, Cigar, and Seabiscuit on a video game simulation.

Perhaps they should make a race where great recent females like Zarkava, Goldikova, Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Rags To Riches, Makybe Diva, and Ouija Board all tangle in a 9f race - run over a racing surface that is dirt for the first three furlongs, poly for the next three furlongs, and turf for the final three furlongs.

Better yet - dirt for the first three furlongs, poly for the 4th furlong, pro-ride for the 5th furlong, cushion-track for the 6th furlong, "Soft" turf for the 7th furlong, "Firm" Turf for the 8th furlong and astro turf plucked out of Foxboro for the 9th and final furlong.

[Seattleallstar]

while we are at it, lets throw in Sunline. This puts all this Zenyatta as best ever to rest.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Well - Zenyatta did beat Citation, Cigar, and Seabiscuit on a video game simulation.

Perhaps they should make a race where great recent females like Zarkava, Goldikova, Rachel Alexandra, Zenyatta, Rags To Riches, Makybe Diva, and Ouija Board all tangle in a 9f race - run over a racing surface that is dirt for the first three furlongs, poly for the next three furlongs, and turf for the final three furlongs.

Better yet - dirt for the first three furlongs, poly for the 4th furlong, pro-ride for the 5th furlong, cushion-track for the 6th furlong, "Soft" turf for the 7th furlong, "Firm" Turf for the 8th furlong and astro turf plucked out of Foxboro for the 9th and final furlong.

Who would call the race? Doneman or Dorkin?

[classhandicapper]

Zarkava would get my vote for greatest female turf horse I have ever seen, but it's quite rare for any horse to prove extraordinary quality on multiple surfaces like Zenyatta did today.

Could you imagine Goldikova coming to the US to run in a Met Mile loaded with multiple Grade 1 winning older males on dirt? Tough spot. In my mind, that might actually be an easier task than taking them on at 10F on dirt.

The record is fairly clear that fillies and mares have had way more success against older males in sprints and on turf than at Classic distances on dirt.

The other exception is 3YO fillies that may have an edge in maturity and development during the Triple Crown preps and races before the 3YO colts hit their peak later.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Zarkava would get my vote for greatest female turf horse I have ever seen, but it's quite rare for any horse to prove extraordinary quality on multiple surfaces like Zenyatta did today.

Could you imagine Goldikova coming to the US to run in a Met Mile loaded with multiple Grade 1 winning older males on dirt? Tough spot. In my mind, that might actually be an easier task than taking them on at 10F on dirt.

The record is fairly clear that fillies and mares have had way more success against older males in sprints and on turf than at Classic distances on dirt.

The other exception is 3YO fillies that may have an edge in maturity and development during the Triple Crown preps and races before the 3YO colts hit their peak later.

Had to give ya one for each paragraph

Terrific post

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Had to give ya one for each paragraph

Terrific post

It is difficult for a filly to defeat males at a Classic distance on dirt. That makes Rachel Alexandra's Preakness win all the more amazing.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

It is difficult for a filly to defeat males at a Classic distance on dirt. That makes Rachel Alexandra's Preakness win all the more amazing.

Uh, dumbass, did you miss that last paragraph of CH's post?

[DaTruth]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Uh, dumbass, did you miss that last paragraph of CH's post?

So, it is common for a filly to win the Preakness? Hmm, someone alert Leroy Jolley and D. Wanye Lukas.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

So, it is common for a filly to win the Preakness? Hmm, someone alert Leroy Jolley and D. Wanye Lukas.

Didn't you know that the day after the Belmont is run, it becomes official that all three year old males are caught up to their filly counterparts?

That's how shitty ass fillies like RA or R2R were able to win those classics. They were picking on immature male horses.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Could you imagine Zenyatta coming to New York to run in a Met Mile loaded with multiple Grade 1 winning older males on dirt? Tough spot. In my mind, that might actually be an easier task with all that speed in there than taking them on at 10F on dirt.

The record is fairly clear that fillies and mares have had way more success against older males in sprints and on turf than at Classic distances on dirt. That is if you don't count the last four attempts by fillies and mares taking on males at the classic distance on dirt (Rags to Riches, RA, Zenyatta last year and Zenyatta this year)

The other exception is 3YO fillies that may have an edge in maturity and development during the Triple Crown preps and races before the 3YO colts hit their peak later. I say 'may have' because I'm a buffoon that doesn't know what I'm talking about and I need to throw something out there to try to make myself look smarter than I actually am.

No charge for the edits.

[Port Conway Lane]

Anyone have info on Zarkava's sire ? I've never seen him before.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Anyone have info on Zarkava's sire ? I've never seen him before.

A Juddmonte stud who ran seven times. Has sired three other Group 1 winners I believe. His next best offspring was Darjina, a filly who won three G1's in France at 3 in '07.

[Port Conway Lane]

Thanks

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

Anyone have info on Zarkava's sire ? I've never seen him before.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=zarkava+pedigree



It will be the first one that comes up.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=zarkava+pedigree



It will be the first one that comes up.

Thanks, that was easy enough.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

So, it is common for a filly to win the Preakness? Hmm, someone alert Leroy Jolley and D. Wanye Lukas.

It's not common for any filly to beat the best 3YO colts in the world in a Classic race. Only the special ones can do that. But it's easier than beating the best fully matured older horses at Classic distances on dirt.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

No charge for the edits.

I think it's fairly clear that you do not understand how to classify horses properly or understand the development and other issues that often come into play when fillies and mares take on 2YO and 3YO colts vs. older horses at various distances and on various surfaces.

Rather than allowing your biases to impact your understanding going forward, I think you'd be better off listening to what I am saying because that's one of the thing I have researched for decades.

That's the method I use when I am trying to learn from people that know more about some aspects of the game than I do.