Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > The Paddock
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:37 AM
Kasept's Avatar
Kasept Kasept is online now
Steve Byk
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Greenwich, NY
Posts: 43,433
Default Chuck offers rational response to invitation for Federal intervention

For those who haven't seen it yet, (as linked on Equidaily and Paulick ), Chuck has penned an insightful commentary on the current mania seeking to guarantee racing's demise via Federal intervention and draconian medication rules..

Do not miss it: The blind appealing to the stupid...

Horse racing in America is a wonderfully complex cross between an athletic sport, a gambling venture and an agribusiness. The levels of competition varies wildly from bush tracks running in Louisiana to million dollar babies competing at historic Saratoga. The sport has a rich tradition seen in events like the Kentucky Derby which has been run at Churchill Downs in Louisville, Kentucky for 137 years. The exotic wagers now played at tracks across the country have pools that sometimes reach into the millions of dollars with six figure payoffs. The economic impact of horse racing is estimated by the American Horse Council in terms of GDP to be $10 billion dollars in direct impact and $26 billion in total. In 2005 there were over 380,000 jobs supported by horse racing.

Too bad a few people are willing to throw it all away.
__________________
All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind. ~ Joseph Conrad
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right. ~ Thomas Paine
Don't let anyone tell you that your dreams can't come true. They are only afraid that theirs won't and yours will. ~ Robert Evans

Last edited by Kasept : 06-03-2011 at 09:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:18 AM
MaTH716's Avatar
MaTH716 MaTH716 is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 11,438
Default

It's a very good piece. Maybe Chuck could get the DRF or Bloodhorse to publish it so more people see it.
__________________
Felix Unger talking to Oscar Madison: "Your horse could finish third by 20 lengths and they still pay you? And you have been losing money for all these years?!"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:31 AM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

Already on the front page of the Paulick Report. Well done, Cannon Shell.
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:15 AM
Coach Pants
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That was excellent, Chuck. Unfortunately it will probably go in one ear and out the other.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:27 AM
geeker2's Avatar
geeker2 geeker2 is offline
Hialeah Park
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 6,235
Default

Great job Chuck!

" It is a piece of garbage that should cost Whitfield and Udall their seats for sponsoring such a joke of a bill."
__________________
We've Gone Delirious
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:31 AM
slotdirt's Avatar
slotdirt slotdirt is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 4,894
Default

#6 about 6 mins ago by Stanley
Just curious. Who is Chuck Simon? Never heard of the guy.


http://www.paulickreport.com/news/th...-what-they-do/
__________________
The world's foremost expert on virtually everything on the Redskins 2010 season: "Im going to go out on a limb here. I say they make the playoffs."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:10 PM
Gate Dancer's Avatar
Gate Dancer Gate Dancer is offline
Gulfstream Park
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SW Nebr
Posts: 1,155
Default

To think that the 'Feds' getting involved is the answer is laughable. They have such a great history of successful operations.................Fannie, Freddie, Post Office, Amtrak, FEMA. It's really quite unbelievable.

Great response Chuck.
__________________
A racehorse is an animal that can take several thousand people for a ride at the same time. ~Author Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:51 PM
Holland Hacker's Avatar
Holland Hacker Holland Hacker is offline
Narragansett Park
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Western New Jersey
Posts: 598
Default

Chuck,

Good insights. Does anyone have a link to the legislation? I would like to e-mail my congressman and tell him to vote "nay" if this ever hits the floor.
__________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those that matter don't mind, and those that mind, dont matter."
Theodore Seuss Geisel
"Dr. Seuss"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2011, 02:11 PM
Fearless Leader Fearless Leader is offline
Delaware Park
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 175
Default

It's an excellent article.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2011, 02:35 PM
miraja2's Avatar
miraja2 miraja2 is offline
Arlington Park
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 4,157
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slotdirt View Post
#6 about 6 mins ago by Stanley
Just curious. Who is Chuck Simon? Never heard of the guy.


http://www.paulickreport.com/news/th...-what-they-do/
Personally I enjoyed the third comment:
"In some ways I can agree with Mr. Simon, the Federal Government bill is not likely to change much."

Ummmm....huh? Talk about a misreading of Chuck's argument in this piece.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-03-2011, 02:36 PM
AeWingnut's Avatar
AeWingnut AeWingnut is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 4,828
Default

now some accuse Chuck of being dirty
can't argue with him so just accuse him of being dirty

scumbags
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-03-2011, 02:37 PM
Riot's Avatar
Riot Riot is offline
Keeneland
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,153
Default

Well done, Chuck Glad it will get good industry coverage via PR !
__________________
"Have the clean racing people run any ads explaining that giving a horse a Starbucks and a chocolate poppyseed muffin for breakfast would likely result in a ten year suspension for the trainer?" - Dr. Andrew Roberts
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:36 PM
paulo537 paulo537 is offline
Morris Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 121
Default

I read the article and while I thought it was good, I don't share the same level of enthusiasm as others. I do agree the problem is a lack of consistent medication policy across the sport but I would ask these questions:

1. How much longer should fans and gamblers be asked to wait until the sport starts to manage the issue itself?

2. What makes US horse racing so very different than racing in other countries with much stricter medication rules?

3. Why don't we have penalties on owners for medication violations? If trainers are held strictly liable, why not owners?

I also found the paragraph where he asked why "these well-heeled people don't ... just prove the theory yourself without dragging the rest of the racing industry down with you?" to be rather odd.

4. Who are these people? And, why should anyone who doesn't want to invest in the negative expectation business of horse ownership be expected to prove anything to anyone?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:42 PM
Coach Pants
 
Posts: n/a
Default

And I'd also like to ask...




Who does Number Two work for?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:45 PM
cakes44's Avatar
cakes44 cakes44 is offline
The Curragh
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,744
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants View Post
And I'd also like to ask...




Who does Number Two work for?

You show that turd who's boss!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-03-2011, 03:48 PM
paulo537 paulo537 is offline
Morris Park
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants View Post
And I'd also like to ask...




Who does Number Two work for?
#3?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-03-2011, 04:08 PM
philcski's Avatar
philcski philcski is offline
Goodwood
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 8,872
Default

This Chuck guy is smarter than he looks!
__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:01 PM
Cannon Shell's Avatar
Cannon Shell Cannon Shell is offline
Sha Tin
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 20,855
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo537 View Post
I read the article and while I thought it was good, I don't share the same level of enthusiasm as others. I do agree the problem is a lack of consistent medication policy across the sport but I would ask these questions:

1. How much longer should fans and gamblers be asked to wait until the sport starts to manage the issue itself?

2. What makes US horse racing so very different than racing in other countries with much stricter medication rules?

3. Why don't we have penalties on owners for medication violations? If trainers are held strictly liable, why not owners?

I also found the paragraph where he asked why "these well-heeled people don't ... just prove the theory yourself without dragging the rest of the racing industry down with you?" to be rather odd.

4. Who are these people? And, why should anyone who doesn't want to invest in the negative expectation business of horse ownership be expected to prove anything to anyone?
1. What issue are you referring to? Be more specific
2. Most countries don't have much stricter rules other than Lasix. tht is simply a myth. You don't think there is much difference between European turf rcing and American dirt racing?
3. We have few enough owners as it is though perhaps suspending all of a trainers horses throughout a trainers suspension would give owners pause to use guys who regularly get days.
4. Get up to speed on the issue and ask again. Many of the people pushing this crap bill are breeders who refuse to take any responsibility for the supposed weakening of the breed despite the fact it is they who produce the horses. Like I said if American horses are so weak then why not take advantage of this a create a better breed using foreign breeding stock?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:18 PM
jms62's Avatar
jms62 jms62 is offline
Saratoga
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannon Shell View Post
1. What issue are you referring to? Be more specific
2. Most countries don't have much stricter rules other than Lasix. tht is simply a myth. You don't think there is much difference between European turf rcing and American dirt racing?
3. We have few enough owners as it is though perhaps suspending all of a trainers horses throughout a trainers suspension would give owners pause to use guys who regularly get days.
4.
Get up to speed on the issue and ask again. Many of the people pushing this crap bill are breeders who refuse to take any responsibility for the supposed weakening of the breed despite the fact it is they who produce the horses. Like I said if American horses are so weak then why not take advantage of this a create a better breed using foreign breeding stock?
Great article. I always had you pegged as a very smart guy although our opinions often differ.

As to #3. Maybe the economic model is broken... Prices at auctions are absurd when compared to average earnings (And IMHO rigged). They are selling a dream to those with huge egos trying to impress. Trainer costs also are way too high. Smart people aren't going to get involved in a game in which 95% of them are going to lose money. The only people involved are the obscenely rich marks with the huge egos and those of us thinking they can beat the odds. Which nearly all won't. Also suspension of the horse for a extended period would put pressure on the owners to pressure the trainers to be clean else lose the horses. How many owners cry out against trainers cheating but use the same (SS for one).
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-03-2011, 06:32 PM
AeWingnut's Avatar
AeWingnut AeWingnut is offline
Atlantic City Race Course
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Suddenly
Posts: 4,828
Default I'm certain Chuck can address your concerns better than me

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo537 View Post
I read the article and while I thought it was good, I don't share the same level of enthusiasm as others. I do agree the problem is a lack of consistent medication policy across the sport but I would ask these questions:

1. How much longer should fans and gamblers be asked to wait until the sport starts to manage the issue itself?
I'm not convinced that gamblers have a problem with medication rules. If they think someone is cheating they will just bet them. Fans... the only fans I know are gamblers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo537 View Post
2. What makes US horse racing so very different than racing in other countries with much stricter medication rules?
The racing in other countries is different. They don't really ask the horses for much run until the stretch. The horses are bred to run long not fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo537 View Post
3. Why don't we have penalties on owners for medication violations? If trainers are held strictly liable, why not owners?
Outside of Michael Gill, I can't think of many owners having much to do with the daily care, medication - etc of the horse. if you take away the purse money from horses that test positive than you punish owner's pocket book. What do you want to do? Ban all of the owners. What if there are 50 owners in a partnership? Have the state take ownership?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo537 View Post
I also found the paragraph where he asked why "these well-heeled people don't ... just prove the theory yourself without dragging the rest of the racing industry down with you?" to be rather odd.


4. Who are these people? And, why should anyone who doesn't want to invest in the negative expectation business of horse ownership be expected to prove anything to anyone?
imagine John Kerry actually paying higher taxes instead of dodging them. While he blames the system for allowing people to keep more of their compensation.

Owners that complain about the drug rules then take full advantage of them.
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.