Pennsylvania takeout rate

[ddthetide]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_749278.html

[Travis Stone]

I generally think the takeout debate is overrated and overplayed... but 35% on a Trifecta pool? That's a lot.

[Calzone Lord]

I generally think every single horse racing debate ever had in the last 75 years that doesn't involve takeout is extremely overrated and overplayed.

It's the only thing that even matters at all ... and there's always some stupid nonsense issue of the moment like Lasix that comes up.

Rising takeouts have single handedly caused every single genuine problem that horse racing has ever had.

[Cannon Shell]

I have never met Sal DeBrunda. I'm sure when I do he will wish that we hadn't as there is a very large chance that I may wind up telling him what I think of his comments.

[Calzone Lord]

This current Presque Isle Downs meet is an all-time great example of a race meet with the most optimal betting conditons and circumstances a bettor could ever dream of having.

Especially with all the extreme peculiarities involved with the racing surface that greatly favor those who understand it and would totally undermine anyone who doesn't.

My top pick in the paper is 125-for-432 (28.94% wins) with - considering the sample size - a borderline impossible 19.61% profit per every dollar bet.

Even if you remove two top pick winners that paid $65.20 and $76.20 - you're still showing a strong profit.

And the cold exacta stats would be inflated through the roof - partly because the exacta was completed in both instances when the $65.20 and $76.20 horse won.

Because of the weak betting pools on all but Tuesday's - and the high exotic wagering takeout - you can't make a great deal of money no matter how sensational the stats are.

Do that in New York, California, or Kentucky - and you're making incredible money.

I've seen days where a high-action PID race will handle as much or more money on BetFair as will one of the days lowest action races at Saratoga or Del Mar.

It's a sad situation.

[lowerperkmike]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_749278.html

Ouch... no wonder the handle does not grow while the purses continue to increase. Mayve its time for the tracks, all of them in the state, to try what Delaware Park did with increasing the payouts for on track winners.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by lowerperkmike

Ouch... no wonder the handle does not grow while the purses continue to increase. Mayve its time for the tracks, all of them in the state, to try what Delaware Park did with increasing the payouts for on track winners.

The tracks in the state want horseracing to fail

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Do that in New York, California, or Kentucky - and you're making incredible money.

Another classic situation of this in the 8th race at PID today.





* Eye of the Eagle was a soundly beaten 7th at 72-to-1 odds in his last start at this class level. However, anyone who understands this track and watched his last race knows he ran a monster race last out.





Eye of the Eagle wins effortlessly by 6 lengths at 17/1 odds and pays $36.60 to win. The exacta top pick over 3rd pick paid a decent $294.40 -- but with exacta pools of just less than 10K - you can't swing at these here.


Chart: http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRaces...=20110806&RN=8


Worst of all - the pick 4 pool has just $885 bet into it.

Race #5: Top pick winner pays $14.40
Race #6: Four horse field won by Even money shot (Gayego scratched)
Race #7: Five horse field won by 2/1 shot
Race #8: Eye of the Eagle wins

If this was on a tuesday - when you can get 8K in the 50-cent pick 4 pool - you take the whole pool. Instead 3 out of 4 pays $218.20 -- and no one sane plays it.

If you're not in with Betfair or have a way in with a book - it's all a complete joke. This is still a great track to play if you're cool with betting $40 or less a race -- but it's a disgrace that a such quality horse racing product comes to this.

[Cannon Shell]

http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/...#axzz1UTO5kUpQ

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by ddthetide

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_749278.html

Margo!!

"Obviously, the bettors reacted very favorably," said Margo Flynn, the track's vice president of marketing. "They were overwhelmingly supportive."

"Ultimately, they are getting less value for their dollar," Flynn said. "It's that much harder to win, and anybody who is a regular patron should have a concern for the takeout."

[Cannon Shell]

We have discussions from time to time whether lower takeout rates will attract bettors," said Sal DeBunda, the president of the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, which represents the horsemen at Parx Racing. "To be honest, I have not heard a lot of complaining from our bettors. The payoffs are big enough that the bettors don't really realize what (the takeout) is."

Read more: Pa. horse racing: Not a sure bet - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1WXK1OEQc


http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRaces...20110829&RN=10

Check out the ontrack mutuel pool-$60609.00

That's right, they did 60k ontrack yesterday. Total. Wonder where all those dumb guys Sal DeBunda was talking about were?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We have discussions from time to time whether lower takeout rates will attract bettors," said Sal DeBunda, the president of the Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horseman's Association, which represents the horsemen at Parx Racing. "To be honest, I have not heard a lot of complaining from our bettors. The payoffs are big enough that the bettors don't really realize what (the takeout) is."

Read more: Pa. horse racing: Not a sure bet - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1WXK1OEQc


[url]http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=PRX&CTY=USA&DAT E=20110829&RN=

That's right, they did 60k ontrack yesterday. Total. Wonder where all those dumb guys Sal DeBunda was talking about were?

Betting via the Internet? On track totals are relics of a time long gone that is never coming back. Is 1.68 million bad for a Tuesday at a B level track?

[Calzone Lord]

Tuesday is by far the best day for PID and probably the same for Philly.

Philly is the Saratoga and Del Mar all rolled into one of Tuesday racing. They handled only 864K all sources last Saturday.

Adjusted for inflation -- Plunger Walton (who was from the tiny city of Philly) would bet that kind of sum on a single race in his glory days.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Tuesday is by far the best day for PID and probably the same for Philly.

Philly is the Saratoga and Del Mar all rolled into one of Tuesday racing. They handled only 864K all sources last Saturday.

Adjusted for inflation -- Plunger Walton (who was from the tiny city of Philly) would bet that kind of sum on a single race in his glory days.

What are your thoughts vis a vis On Track Handle in the 21st century? Do you think it is still a meaningful metric as to the health of the sport?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by jms62

What are your thoughts vis a vis On Track Handle in the 21st century? Do you think it is still a meaningful metric as to the health of the sport?

With the incredible advancements in information and technology -- there's never been less reason to go to the track. It's not as meaningful as a metric, no.

These guys like Pittsburgh Phil would have to constantly get on trains and go track-to-track all across the country... just so they could bet on almost all short fields, with no real exotics, and very limited info.

Horse racing should be a bigger deal than the NFL, MLB, and NBA combined. I doubt any industry has ever tried so hard for so long to shrink and poison its customer/fan base.

[ellpol]

[quote=Calzone Lord;804202]With the incredible advancements in information and technology -- there's never been less reason to go to the track. It's not as meaningful as a metric, no.

I have to agree with you as the last 2 years I rarely feel the desire to actually go to the track, I have become anti- social though. I used to go and talk to my degenerate friends all day. Now I stay at home watch TVG and HRTV and bet on Twinspires and yell at the analysts till my wife comes into the room and tells me "there is a mute button on the remote hon".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Betting via the Internet? On track totals are relics of a time long gone that is never coming back. Is 1.68 million bad for a Tuesday at a B level track?

I think you are missing the point. On track handle is not nearly as important as before the advent of adw's but 60k is a joke. The head of the horsemans group said that he hadn't heard complaints from bettors. An ontrack handle of 60k shows that there aren't any bettors to complain to him.

Batting average in baseball has been shown to have far less importance as a measuring metric than in past years but if a guy is hitting .140 you dont have to be an expert to know he sucks. If your a track is handling 60k ontrack there are major issues that need to be resolved. These clowns won't even recognize that their product is not only overpriced but not that good either. I know a lot of people dont give a damn what happens in PA but if the politicians/tracks succeed in axing racing don't think that the politicans in other states won't be watching.