BC SPRINT: Big Drama to Vos; Sean Avery sidelined

Kasept · #1 09-08-2011, 02:34 PM

News good/bad on the Sprint Division front...

Big Drama a Vosburgh go... Tendon bow sidelines Vandy winner Sean Avery...

Seattleallstar · #2 09-08-2011, 06:52 PM

Sean Avery sucked anyway, and was aided by that crazy bias at Saratoga

hockey2315 · #3 09-08-2011, 07:22 PM

You are 10000x more annoying than PG1985 was at his absolute worst.

tjfla · #4 09-14-2011, 01:42 PM

According to Von Hemel, Caleb's Posse to Indiana Derby then Possible Dirt Mile

No Sprint for him

Would think he figured out that 6/7F is a good distance for the horse,guess 500k makes u rethink that?

http://www.drf.com/news/arlington-ca...-indiana-derby

hockey2315 · #5 09-14-2011, 02:11 PM

It's a complete joke. . . I don't know if Von Hemel's just trying to get cute or what. He sort of did the same thing with Alternation who, admittedly, hasn't panned out. The Belmont was a no-brainer spot for him after his Peter Pan win and I still have no clue why they skipped it. Caleb's Posse's not an overly attractive stallion prospect, obviously, but a GI over older or champion sprinter honors would change that to some degree. . . the $300K he might win at a distance he's vulnerable at doesn't come close.

Cannon Shell · #6 09-14-2011, 02:18 PM

I don't understand why anyone would take issue with him pointing to a 1 turn mile race with a horse seemingly ideally suited to one? He isn't exactly a 6 furlong wizard.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #7 09-14-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

You are 10000x more annoying than PG1985 was at his absolute worst.

hockey2315 · #8 09-14-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I don't understand why anyone would take issue with him pointing to a 1 turn mile race with a horse seemingly ideally suited to one? He isn't exactly a 6 furlong wizard.

It's not really the BC race I have the issue with--I could see the argument for the sprint or mile--he's sort of in between. It's the race before that that I have an issue with.

parsixfarms · #9 09-14-2011, 04:45 PM

Since we have both the Sprint and Dirt Mile, it would be nice to return the Vosburgh to its historic distance of 7F, where it could serve as a prep for both races.

hockey2315 · #10 09-14-2011, 05:04 PM

That's what the Kelso is there for now.

parsixfarms · #11 09-14-2011, 09:38 PM

If the Vosburgh was run at 7F, wouldn't need Kelso at a mile on dirt.

NTamm1215 · #12 09-14-2011, 10:24 PM

I like the Vosburgh at 6fs and the Kelso at one mile. The Kelso had lost its luster on the turf with the Woodbine and Shadwell Miles being much more appealing spots.

Horses like Jackson Bend and Caleb's Posse are in "no man's land" so to speak as horses who are geared more towards 7fs but their respective connections will just have to make early decisions.

hockey2315 · #13 09-14-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

And the Kelso could be resumed as a one mile turf race.

I don't know why we'd ever want to eliminate any dirt race run over a flat mile. . . they're probably some of the best races in terms of quality. And, like Nick pointed out, there are better turf mile races out there. There are waaay too many graded turf races in this country as it is, and I love turf racing.

Dahoss · #14 09-14-2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I don't know why we'd ever want to eliminate any dirt race run over a flat mile. . . they're probably some of the best races in terms of quality. And, like Nick pointed out, there are better turf mile races out there. There are waaay too many graded turf races in this country as it is, and I love turf racing.

There are "better" turf races out there, but it wasn't that long ago the Kelso was thought of as one of, if not THE prep for the BC Mile. Your point is a good one that the mile dirt races are usually some of the best races around.

I guess I just remember some real solid editions of the Kelso when it was on grass. It's a pipe dream because of the landscape of racing today, but I would love to see it return one day.

parsixfarms · #15 09-15-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

I suppose that I will be -- figuratively -- dragged kicking and screaming into Breeders' Cup modernity, but the notion that the Vosburgh needs to be used as a 6F prep for the Breeders' Cup sprint is still distasteful. (I don't believe that you necessarily implied this, though you might have.)

Both Hoss and you are right about the Kelso: the Woodbine (timing and purse) and Shadwell Mile (purse) are more appealing, but there were wonderful editions of the Kelso in the not-so-distant past.

Ironically, not a single winner of the Vosburgh has gone on to factor in the Sprint since it was shortened to 6F, and last year's edition had to be one of the weakest that I can remember. The adverse impact that the BC-centric scheduling/shortening of races can also be seen in the unfortunate decision to move the Nashua and Tempted to early October to serve as preps for the new BC Juvenile Sprint rather than serving as bridges to the Remsen and Demoiselle. It's possible that the movement of those races will also have an adverse impact upon the Champagne and Frizette, which will be run only one week later.

I agree with NTamm's point about the impact that the Shadwell Mile had upon the Kelso in recent years.

parsixfarms · #16 09-15-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardus

I guess this morphs into a Breeders' Cup discussion for the umteempth (sp?) time, but I wonder if the Breeders' Cup Dirt Mile -- more nauseating when it is held on a synthetic course -- is necessary.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the Sprint has been weaker and with less than full fields since the Dirt Mile was inaugurated. I'm not sure that running this non-Championship caliber race is any more nauseating on synthetics than it was running it at a mile and seventy yards.

King Glorious · #17 09-15-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Ironically, not a single winner of the Vosburgh has gone on to factor in the Sprint since it was shortened to 6F, and last year's edition had to be one of the weakest that I can remember. The adverse impact that the BC-centric scheduling/shortening of races can also be seen in the unfortunate decision to move the Nashua and Tempted to early October to serve as preps for the new BC Juvenile Sprint rather than serving as bridges to the Remsen and Demoiselle. It's possible that the movement of those races will also have an adverse impact upon the Champagne and Frizette, which will be run only one week later.

I agree with NTamm's point about the impact that the Shadwell Mile had upon the Kelso in recent years.

It might be old age playing a factor but off the top of my head, I can't remember many successful BC results from 7f Vosburgh winners. I know there have been a few Vosburgh losers to win the Sprint but Artax is the only one I can recall doubling.

parsixfarms · #18 09-15-2011, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

It might be old age playing a factor but off the top of my head, I can't remember many successful BC results from 7f Vosburgh winners.

Does that matter?

King Glorious · #19 09-15-2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Does that matter?

Does anything matter? I thought the point you were trying to make was that the switch to 6f didn't really help it become a more productive prep for the Sprint and I was only saying it wasn't really productive before from a winner's standpoint and that was maybe why they thought shortening it would help. You're right though. It doesn't matter.

Cannon Shell · #20 09-15-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The adverse impact that the BC-centric scheduling/shortening of races can also be seen in the unfortunate decision to move the Nashua and Tempted to early October to serve as preps for the new BC Juvenile Sprint rather than serving as bridges to the Remsen and Demoiselle. It's possible that the movement of those races will also have an adverse impact upon the Champagne and Frizette, which will be run only one week later.

There are already a ton of preps for the BC juvy sprint. They call them maiden special weights.