Point Given

[Indian Charlie]

Just read his stud fee was jumped from $7500 to 20k.

Isn't Coil his only useful runner going lately?

That is an odd thing for his fee to jump up that much.

[Thunder Gulch]

Sure looks like his usefulness is diminishing. Only 2 millionaires in his career.


By Current Year Earnings
Name Earnings
Coil $755,200
Pointless Love $74,190
Passion Point $68,040
True to a Point $62,750
Fly Angel Fly $55,910
Cartier Lady $52,535
Lookn Even Finer $51,599
Primary Notice $48,120
Duchess of Doom $41,997
Ashes To Glory (GB) $37,361

[PatCummings]

If he is a hall of famer...Gio Ponti has to be, right?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

If he is a hall of famer...Gio Ponti has to be, right?

How can you even begin to compare the 2? Point GIven was a dominate 3yr old over a pretty good crop. Gio Ponti is an admirable, but not that good turf horse. He is consistent, but has some serious distance limitations. He has faced years of bad american turf horses as well.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

How can you even begin to compare the 2? Point GIven was a dominate 3yr old over a pretty good crop. Gio Ponti is an admirable, but not that good turf horse. He is consistent, but has some serious distance limitations. He has faced years of bad american turf horses as well.

What distance? 6 furlongs or 2 1/2 miles?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane

What distance? 6 furlongs or 2 1/2 miles?

Just the way Ramon handles him going 10f and up tells me they are not sure he can get those distances. They have to run him in those races though, where else can they run? Not to mention he runs second a lot.

[Calzone Lord]

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

I think I just said this, pretty much word for word.

[Calzone Lord]

I scroll-wheel past your posts without reading them.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Point Given was a monster 3yo and dominated a deep and talented 3yo divison. He had a tremendously impressive Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers sweep in his final 4 starts.

Gio Ponti was a good, consistant, healthy top class American turf horse for a couple of years. Built a very nice resume in our turf races -- but turf racing is an afterthought in this country.

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I scroll-wheel past your posts without reading them.

Yet, you just answered his post.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I scroll-wheel past your posts without reading them.

We both know thats not true, at all. If your going to try to insult me be more original. We both know your capable. BTW hows your brother?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

When I first started posting here as PointGiven I was told that 2 lengths in a turf race is a ton. A lot different from 2 lengths in a dirt race. Multiple members said that.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

First - I question the credentials of many of the horses Point Given defeated in his wins (against some small fields). Wins might've been impressive, but shouldn't you at least face open competition before you're crowned a HoFer, barring a Triple Crown sweep?

He faced very good 3yo competiton -- races like the Preakness, Belmont, Haskell, and Travers are among the most prized of the Grade 1's by owners.

How many horses have completed such a sweep?

You can't fault him for getting hurt before having a chance to face older males... but sure, it's a hole in his resume.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Second - because he did it on turf, it doesn't count as much?

Turf racing is an afterthought here. Most of the good turf sires aren't here -- our good horses often aren't even tried on turf until they've flopped on dirt. We breed and race primarily for dirt.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Gio Ponti is everything we don't have enough of in this sport...wins over five seasons, always showed up (never beaten more than 4 lengths in his 17 losses, 2.5 lengths or less in 16 of them)...

His case would have been helped had he beat Court Vision the other day.

Maybe a hall of fame for hangers who stay healthy?

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

When I first started posting here as PointGiven I was told that 2 lengths in a turf race is a ton. A lot different from 2 lengths in a dirt race. Multiple members said that.

Congratulations on a great memory...

I thought the 7 G1 wins, and 7 G1 seconds ringed a bit truer to his performances, but maybe you didn't remember those like you remember being scolded. He made 17 of his final 18 starts in G1 company. Can't say that about ANY other horse, dirt, turf, synth...

As if it matters now, he's two absolutely atrocious rides from Ramon away from being the all-time money winner.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Congratulations on a great memory...

I thought the 7 G1 wins, and 7 G1 seconds ringed a bit truer to his performances, but maybe you didn't remember those like you remember being scolded. He made 17 of his final 18 starts in G1 company. Can't say that about ANY other horse, dirt, turf, synth...

As if it matters now, he's two absolutely atrocious rides from Ramon away from being the all-time money winner.

I know his resume Pat. I said hes admirable and consistent, thats where it stops for me. He was never brillant, and he was always facing not much. Cape Blanco beats his easily twice, easily. Anytime he faced a read horse Gio Ponti was running second.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Anytime he faced a read horse Gio Ponti was running second.

In his prime -- he did somehow beat Ventura by a nose at level weights going a mile when Ventura was a huge favorite and going good.

The Ventura upset was probably his finest performance.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

In his prime -- he did somehow beat Ventura by a nose at level weights going a mile when Ventura was a huge favorite and going good.

The Ventura upset was probably his finest performance.

That was in Cali. I remember that. She was around 6-5 and I think he was 3-1. Not a huge upset.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

In his prime -- he did somehow beat Ventura by a nose at level weights going a mile when Ventura was a huge favorite and going good.

The Ventura upset was probably his finest performance.

GP should be in the hall of fame for making you 7500 at my expense!

Well, more like 6k adjusted, but still.

I forget how lucky you can be sometimes.

Back to the original point of this thread. Why was PG jumped up from 7500 to 20k?

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

GP should be in the hall of fame for making you 7500 at my expense!

Well, more like 6k adjusted, but still.

I forget how lucky you can be sometimes.

Back to the original point of this thread. Why was PG jumped up from 7500 to 20k?

I have no clue about the jump. Could it be just from Coil taking the Haskell?