For GR and KYRose

[Downthestretch55]

I thought you might like this article.
Sure, the right wingers will bash it. They bash any opposing views.
So I'm not putting this out for them. I already know what they'll say.
They are certainly entitled to their opinions, but not their name-calling.
The truth stands on its own, for those with courage enough to say it.
Here's someone that does...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...ing_democracy/

[Downthestretch55]

And also the words of Senator Robert Byrd, our longest serving senator.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0913-32.htm

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

And also the words of Senator Robert Byrd, our longest serving senator.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0913-32.htm

Robert Byrd....he makes some valid points but please, a former member of the KKK lost the right to be the voice of reason and compassion when he pulled the white hood over his head...

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Robert Byrd....he makes some valid points but please, a former member of the KKK lost the right to be the voice of reason and compassion when he pulled the white hood over his head...

In no way do I agree with the KKK. And, if memory serves, Byrd has apologized for the poor decisions he's made.

[Danzig]

lol

only right wingers bash eh?

so, when i agree, as i have been known to do, with a 'liberal' view--am i a right winger than? a basher? or maybe just suffering a moment of sanity....
and goodness knows when a more conservative POV is presented, ah, no left wing bashing to be seen.

the road runs in both directions. some of us try to tread down the middle of the road, so as not to get pushed off either shoulder into a ditch. and that way, we can see both sides of the road pretty well...


good ol byrd. apparently if you live long enough all your sins are forgiven...

[timmgirvan]

Robert Byrd? Can anyone say moral compass?? And Robert Scheer..the most strident voice on the left??? I don't think so,my friend!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

In no way do I agree with the KKK. And, if memory serves, Byrd has apologized for the poor decisions he's made.

lol

so did david duke...but apparently only liberals mean it, conservatives are faking.



---disclaimer....i in no way support now, and never supported, the likes of david duke!!! he and byrd--two sides of the same rotten, crooked coin!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

And also the words of Senator Robert Byrd, our longest serving senator.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0913-32.htm

quality over quantity!!

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

lol

only right wingers bash eh?

so, when i agree, as i have been known to do, with a 'liberal' view--am i a right winger than? a basher? or maybe just suffering a moment of sanity....
and goodness knows when a more conservative POV is presented, ah, no left wing bashing to be seen.

the road runs in both directions. some of us try to tread down the middle of the road, so as not to get pushed off either shoulder into a ditch. and that way, we can see both sides of the road pretty well...


good ol byrd. apparently if you live long enough all your sins are forgiven...

Danzig, I meant no label directed at you.
If you go back and read the title of this thread, and who I put it up for, and also read my introductory post, I kind of anticipated the response.
I am not asking anyone to agree with my views.
For those that chose to do so, fine.
There are some that would rather attack the "character" of those that say something of merit, not their words, their "character".
If you took anything I've stated the wrong way, I offer my deep apology.
dTS

[somerfrost]

DTS, honestly to be taken seriously you have to avoid the likes of Byrd...I went to school in WVa and my first wife was from there...I know too much about the guy, the comparisons of him and Duke are certainly valid...forgive? Sure! Forget? No, I'm afraid that's something those of us who marched in the 60's will never do! You simply can't reach the moral high ground wearing a white sheet...it may not cover his body anymore but the karma remains.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

DTS, honestly to be taken seriously you have to avoid the likes of Byrd...I went to school in WVa and my first wife was from there...I know too much about the guy, the comparisons of him and Duke are certainly valid...forgive? Sure! Forget? No, I'm afraid that's something those of us who marched in the 60's will never do! You simply can't reach the moral high ground wearing a white sheet...it may not cover his body anymore but the karma remains.

Somerfrost,
I'll give you that. I also marched, not in the 60's but the 70's.
Read his words.
DTS

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Danzig, I meant no label directed at you.
If you go back and read the title of this thread, and who I put it up for, and also read my introductory post, I kind of anticipated the response.
I am not asking anyone to agree with my views.
For those that chose to do so, fine.
There are some that would rather attack the "character" of those that say something of merit, not their words, their "character".
If you took anything I've stated the wrong way, I offer my deep apology.
dTS

no apology necessary dts. altho we may not always agree, i know i never get any feeling of disrespect or the like from you, may you always be able to say the same about me...also in a bit of a mood today. a good one i guess, but a bit more smart-ass than usual--if you can believe that!!

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

I thought you might like this article.
Sure, the right wingers will bash it. They bash any opposing views.
So I'm not putting this out for them. I already know what they'll say.
They are certainly entitled to their opinions, but not their name-calling.
The truth stands on its own, for those with courage enough to say it.
Here's someone that does...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/...ing_democracy/

I didn't bother reading the article. I just skimmed it slightly because I saw it was by Robert Scherer. That guy is a joke. He used to do a column in the Los Angeles Times once a week. Luckily for the readers, he finally got fired. This guy is truly pitiful. He's like a broken record. His editorial was the same every week: Every bad thing in the whole world is because of George W. Bush.

Scherer has absolutely no shame. His columns were so one-sided and predictable that it was an embarassment. You'd think that at least once in a while he would try to show some type of objectivity. You would think that if he talked for a long enough time that something intelligent would come out of his mouth. Just by sheer chance, you would think that something intelligent may randomly come out of his mouth. I'm still waiting for it to happen. The L.A. Times has always been a liberal paper but even they couldn't stomach Scherer. He was an embarrassment to the paper.

I can't figure out how DTS or anyone else could like reading a guy like Scherer. My politics are definitely to the right of center but I don't like listening to one of these one-sided right-wingers who can't come up with an original thought. I don't like anyone who is going to insult my intelligence and only tell me half the story. I don't care if it's a right-winger or a left-winger.

It's sad how some of you will take the words of some of these people as carte-blanche. It's pathetic. Practically all of my thoughts and opinions are orginal thoughts. I don't like listening to a right-winger like Sean Hannity. I'm not going to learn anything from listening to a guy like that. You guys aren't going to learn anything from listening to idiots like Scherer.

I'm always skeptical of anything any of these people say. Just the other day, Senator Frist was being interviewed and was saying how the republicans want to pass a bill to raise the minimum wage but the democrats are aginst it. If I was as gullible as you guys, I would eat this up and belive that the republicans must want higher wages and the democrats must not. I actually don't know if what Frist said is true or not but I assume it's one of those half-truths that you constantly get from politicians. Even thought I normally like Bill Frist, I have a strong suspicion that he was only telling half the story.

You guys need to be more cynical about people in both parties. It is very rare that one of these politicians or columnists will be straight-forward and will want to tell you the truth. They don't want you to know the truth. They're just giving you one-side of the story trying to sell you their agenda.

You see what is upsetting about this article. The guy has some valid points but then he starts with this ridiculous name calling, like on this board, and just loses credibility. You can bash Bush on his judgements, but when you attempt to make him into a stupid demon it just loses all its credibility. And thats sad because there are some valid points.

Its so easy to make a politician you dont like into someone stupid, ignorant, and evil. It makes them easier to hate, and then one never gets a clear view.

and honestly, the only place I have ever been called a right and a left winger is on this board.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I'm always skeptical of anything any of these people say. Just the other day, Senator Frist was being interviewed and was saying how the republicans want to pass a bill to raise the minimum wage but the democrats are aginst it. If I was as gullible as you guys, I would eat this up and belive that the republicans must want higher wages and the democrats must not. I actually don't know if what Frist said is true or not but I assume it's one of those half-truths that you constantly get from politicians. Even thought I normally like Bill Frist, I have a strong suspicion that he was only telling half the story.

Hey, Rupert!

I know EXACTLY what this is referencing, so I'm happy to shed a little light-- the Republicans in Congress, who have been objecting to raising the minimum wage for several years, put in a bill to raise it-- in the same bill pushing to repeal the estate tax. The estate tax, of course, affects the estates of only the super super rich (top 2 percent) and ending it would really affect the gov't revenue, and eventually, support programs for people who don't have multimillion dollar estates. What the Dems are objecting to is not raising the minimum wage, but repealing the estate tax. But since the Republicans were crafty and put them in the same bill, by voting down the one they vote down the other. So, that's why Frist claims the Dems don't want the minimum wage raised. It's not that. It's that they don't want the estate tax repealed. They're making a hard decision-- voting down the immediate benefit of the working poor so as not to hurt them farther down the road, with the loss of the estate tax income. And I think they're hoping they can regain Congress soon, and get it raised without having to give dead rich guys a handout, too. They're in a tough position though. Hope they do the right thing.

As angry as this move by the Republicans makes me (putting the wage raise in the same bill as the estate tax repeal) I have to admire their craftiness-- they really know how to play the game to make the opposing side look like the bad guys, because they figure most people won't take time to explore the full story. Good for you for not taking it at face value.

Here's an interesting essay on the estate tax.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060515&s=trb051506

DTS, I'll read the article in a few days. This is the first I've even been on DT today-- very busy at work! Miss you all much, my favorite libbers, cons, and swingers.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Hey, Rupert!

I know EXACTLY what this is referencing, so I'm happy to shed a little light-- the Republicans in Congress, who have been objecting to raising the minimum wage for several years, put in a bill to raise it-- in the same bill pushing to repeal the estate tax. The estate tax, of course, affects the estates of only the super super rich (top 2 percent) and ending it would really affect the gov't revenue, and eventually, support programs for people who don't have multimillion dollar estates. What the Dems are objecting to is not raising the minimum wage, but repealing the estate tax. But since the Republicans were crafty and put them in the same bill, by voting down the one they vote down the other. So, that's why Frist claims the Dems don't want the minimum wage raised. It's not that. It's that they don't want the estate tax repealed. They're making a hard decision-- voting down the immediate benefit of the working poor so as not to hurt them farther down the road, with the loss of the estate tax income. And I think they're hoping they can regain Congress soon, and get it raised without having to give dead rich guys a handout, too. They're in a tough position though. Hope they do the right thing.

As angry as this move by the Republicans makes me (putting the wage raise in the same bill as the estate tax repeal) I have to admire their craftiness-- they really know how to play the game to make the opposing side look like the bad guys, because they figure most people won't take time to explore the full story. Good for you for not taking it at face value.

Here's an interesting essay on the estate tax.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060515&s=trb051506

DTS, I'll read the article in a few days. This is the first I've even been on DT today-- very busy at work! Miss you all much, my favorite libbers, cons, and swingers.

I figured that it was a half-truth. I'm glad you clarified it for me. I hate that when they tell half-truths. I don't care what party the person is in. It's an insult to the viewer when these politicians tell half-truths.

By the way, I do think they need to make major changes to the estate-tax. If you live in a place like Beverly Hills where real-estate is expensive, and average house that is 4000 square feet is worth over $2 million. If your motherd died and left you the house, you would probably be forced to sell the house just to pay the estate-tax on the house. You'd probably owe the government $800,000. That's not fair. I don't think you should owe the government anything in that case. I don't know if they should totally get rid of the estate tax, but I think they need to raise the amount that you can inherit without paying taxes. I think the first $5 million or so should be tax-free.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Hey, Rupert!

I know EXACTLY what this is referencing, so I'm happy to shed a little light-- the Republicans in Congress, who have been objecting to raising the minimum wage for several years, put in a bill to raise it-- in the same bill pushing to repeal the estate tax. The estate tax, of course, affects the estates of only the super super rich (top 2 percent) and ending it would really affect the gov't revenue, and eventually, support programs for people who don't have multimillion dollar estates. What the Dems are objecting to is not raising the minimum wage, but repealing the estate tax. But since the Republicans were crafty and put them in the same bill, by voting down the one they vote down the other. So, that's why Frist claims the Dems don't want the minimum wage raised. It's not that. It's that they don't want the estate tax repealed. They're making a hard decision-- voting down the immediate benefit of the working poor so as not to hurt them farther down the road, with the loss of the estate tax income. And I think they're hoping they can regain Congress soon, and get it raised without having to give dead rich guys a handout, too. They're in a tough position though. Hope they do the right thing.

As angry as this move by the Republicans makes me (putting the wage raise in the same bill as the estate tax repeal) I have to admire their craftiness-- they really know how to play the game to make the opposing side look like the bad guys, because they figure most people won't take time to explore the full story. Good for you for not taking it at face value.

Here's an interesting essay on the estate tax.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060515&s=trb051506

DTS, I'll read the article in a few days. This is the first I've even been on DT today-- very busy at work! Miss you all much, my favorite libbers, cons, and swingers.

it's a shame that legit legislation always gets hamstrung by both parties when they do things like that. it's why some want a line item veto.
other problem is, if one guy votes against pork, then the guy who's state doesn't get the pork will vote against legit spending involving the first guy. how can we get anything done that way?

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I figured that it was a half-truth. I'm glad you clarified it for me. I hate that when they tell half-truths. I don't care what party the person is in. It's an insult to the viewer when these politicians tell half-truths.

By the way, I do think they need to make major changes to the estate-tax. If you live in a place like Beverly Hills where real-estate is expensive, and average house that is 4000 square feet is worth over $2 million. If your motherd died and left you the house, you would probably be forced to sell the house just to pay the estate-tax on the house. You'd probably owe the government $800,000. That's not fair. I don't think you should owe the government anything in that case. I don't know if they should totally get rid of the estate tax, but I think they need to raise the amount that you can inherit without paying taxes. I think the first $5 million or so should be tax-free.

Rup, heck with Beverly Hills... say you are a farming family, owning quite a bit of farm land, which, although used for ag, has sky rocketed in value... Estate tax really hurts then.

Ez

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by ezrabrooks

Rup, heck with Beverly Hills... say you are a farming family, owning quite a bit of farm land, which, although used for ag, has sky rocketed in value... Estate tax really hurts then.

Ez

Ez,
This thread has taken a different direction from where it started.
But since we're here, all I can say is that I agree with you about the plight of the "farm family"...or "family farm", however you say it.
Here in NY, so many dairy farms that have been in families for generations have gone out. It is so tragic to see my friends' tears when the auction comes and their herds are loaded on trailers. The stock goes to either another farm, if it has breeding, or to slaughter.
These animals were tended and loved each and every day of their lives.
It seems so sad to me, the "mom and pop" farms selling out because they can't possibly compete with the larger argi-biz operations a few states away.
I guess it comes down to markets and progress.
The same thing has happened when "big box" marketers come along and main street's little stores become vacant when folks go just outside of town to make their purchases. The shopping malls occupy what once was a corn field.
The empty farms remain, as do the empty stores. All the effort over all the years is gone in an anguished moment. Gavel down.
Then the kids try to hang on to whatever value remains. The estate tax takes away the little that is left.
Times have changed. The fields are subdivided for second home development by shrewd people that never knew what it was like to help that little heifer give birth to her first calf at 3 AM on a snowy night.
Yup, times have changed.
DTS