The biggest problem the sport has had for a very long time

[Calzone Lord]

Obviously -- the betting pools in a horse race is the market.

A lot of people who bet on horse racing are brutally clueless and constantly make poor assumptions and terrible decisions.

These bettors, by and large, don't make much of an impact on the market. They're often dopey people betting between $2 to $50 a race -- and most often towards the low side.

Generally, the money coming from competent players and those incredibly sharp bots that bet thousands of dollars a race will make the market.

Obviously, if you're as good as 'The Market' -- you'll lose about 20% of every dollar you bet. It's a very stiff tax.

This, is the biggest roadblock for the sport. In the "Glory days" when only baseball was a bigger deal than horse racing -- it wasn't that unusual for horse bettors to become spectacularly wealthy. In fact, a few horse bettors became among the richest people in the country and achieved celebrity in the press.

Now -- "new fans" must have an incredible amount of disposable time and disposable income -- and they must truly pay the piper if they want to have a chance to eventually someday develop into horse players who have a tremendous enough advantage over the market to be profitable players.

Obviously -- once they get to the point of being an advantage player -- the amount of money they bet is going to absolutely sky-rocket. In a non Pari-Mutual system ... it was absolutely nothing for a guy like Plunger Walton to bet the equivalent of several hundred thousand dollars on a horse race.

I learned the game at a very young age. My grandfather owned Salvatore Builders and was one of the richest men in the 3rd largest city in Pennsylvania. My father owned two car dealerships before his 21st birthday and ran one of the largest new car stores in Florida. My mother and step father own the biggest auto-body shop in the city -- accidents happen like crazy in the cold winters here.

I got to handicap and bet on horse races every weekend of my childhood because of my grandfather. I got paid when he won and obviously lost nothing whenever lost. I was, in a perverted sense, an advantage player even when I was 11-year-old because of that system.

I had a father and grandfather who constantly encouraged me to bet horses, and gave me a lot of incentive to at a young age -- the people who don't have that advantage are in a VERY tough position and will find this game too tough. To be in that position, playing with your own money to start, and feeling losses... the fences will seem like they're 600 feet. The fences for Pittsburgh Phil were slow pitch softball or T-ball fences by comparison.

The biggest challenge facing horse racing -- without question -- is that the game is WAY too tough for new fans to be able to feel any hope. Way too hard for them to feel what it's like to win for an extended period.

This is not an easy game to learn. It's not an easy game to beat. And now casinos and lotteries are everywhere. A lot of sucker money has left the Market because of it.

Horse racing is not going anywhere. It's just not going forward until addresses it's draconian takeout rates. They're a burden too heavy and they make the game hopeless and not worth the effort for the new fan who will have to take his early lumps under any system or in any time period.

[outofthebox]

A great read. Do you have more interesting thoughts. I have a long day sitting inn front of my horse waiting on th3rd at lad. Do the head honchos realize that they do not present an attractive wagering game?

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Do the head honchos realize that they do not present an attractive wagering game?

The vast majority of them don't.

They want to focus on trying to create more one or two day a year fans who don't bet much of anything and are almost useless to the sport.

The few who do realize say they're powerless to make even minor steps in the right direction because of political entities.

The general press has been ganging up on horse racing about other things. Those things are irrelevant issues.

The vast majority of the people in the racing press are unwilling to criticize head honchos in the industry about anything. The press in horse racing is extremely cozy with the status quo.

[outofthebox]

I tried to gamble for a living a few years back. Solely concentrated on the so cal circuit. I clocked in the am, bought the replays on disc and kept up on charts and track bias. Loved the freedom of not working for anyone. I had some winning years. But at the end of the day i realized that it wasnt enough. I was barely making minumum wage. I never fully understood what i was up against with the takeout. Training as you know demands your complete attention. Gone are the days of hours attacking a race card.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

I learned the game at a very young age. My grandfather owned Salvatore Builders and was one of the richest men in the 3rd largest city in Pennsylvania. My father owned two car dealerships before his 21st birthday and ran one of the largest new car stores in Florida. My mother and step father own the biggest auto-body shop in the city -- accidents happen like crazy in the cold winters here.

.

This is why we love Dougie -- any other kid from this background would be driving in his BMW with his popped collared polo shirt heading to the country club instead of the track sweating over his favorite footlong sub not being on the $5 menu.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by outofthebox

I tried to gamble for a living a few years back. Solely concentrated on the so cal circuit. I clocked in the am, bought the replays on disc and kept up on charts and track bias. Loved the freedom of not working for anyone. I had some winning years. But at the end of the day i realized that it wasnt enough. I was barely making minumum wage. I never fully understood what i was up against with the takeout. Training as you know demands your complete attention. Gone are the days of hours attacking a race card.

Obviously, even a lot of sharp people have a hard time grasping what they're up against. New people? They're completely oblivious to it! And that is part of the reason why the powers that be don't seem to think the rate is a big deal and why it has steadily been jacked up over the year. And why they offer takeout reductions on gimmicky exotic bets as an attempt at some sad marketing ploy.

I've heard more than a few sharp trainers admit that they first tried to make it as a bettor -- a lot of them will say they had no success at all. Scott Lake claimed he failed repeatedly as a bettor and was eating 2 for $1 hot dogs from the gas station before he became a force as a trainer. Bobby Frankel claimed to be a serious horse bettor long before he ever touched a horse.

Obviously, you did a lot of work and showed skill to get that slight edge you had. Under a less draconian system -- your edge would have been stronger, and consciously or not, you would have bet A LOT more money overtime.

It's always great fun and a great challenge playing the horses. For me, the feeling is unmatched and I would be lost in this world if I didn't have it to consume all of my time. I had another incredible time today at the track.

It's a shame -- but 99% of new fans can't possibly be developed because of the climate right now. And worse, a great number more who have no interest in horse racing at all would become hard-core fans and big, constant bettors if a climate existed that wasn't so draconian.

I know, with every bone in my body and every fiber of my being, that the biggest problem this sport has right now, and has had for a long time now, by 50 lengths, is the draconian rake.

[Indian Charlie]

I think this thread has set a record for non politics message boards for the most use of the word 'draconian'.

But, yeah, Sal is right. High taxes never really work well.

[GenuineRisk]

You're spot on, Doug, but I don't know that it'll ever get any better. There's an incredible preference, in business and politics, to favor short-term over long-term planning. Yes, reducing the takeout would attract more betting money over the long term, but how to persuade the powers that be that the long-term growth is worth the short-term loss with a reduction in takeout?

So frustrating.