Does the Public Understand Roe v Wade?

[Rupert Pupkin]

I would estimate that well over 95% of people in this country do not even understand Roe v Wade. If Roe v Wade was overturned, that does not outlaw abortion.

For those of you that don't know what a reversal of the Roe v Wade decision would mean, it would simply leave the decision up to each individual state. So it is quite possible that some of the really conservative states might ban abortion. But it would remain legal throughout the vast majority of the country.

I don't really have a strong opinion on the issue. But if Roe v Wade was overturned and abortion was made illegal in a few conservative states, I don't think that would be the end of the world.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I would estimate that well over 95% of people in this country do not even understand Roe v Wade. If Roe v Wade was overturned, that does not outlaw abortion.

For those of you that don't know what a reversal of the Roe v Wade decision would mean, it would simply leave the decision up to each individual state. So it is quite possible that some of the really conservative states might ban abortion. But it would remain legal throughout the vast majority of the country.

I don't really have a strong opinion on the issue. But if Roe v Wade was overturned and abortion was made illegal in a few conservative states, I don't think that would be the end of the world.

Good point. I agree that it would revert to a state's rights issue, like anywhere else that Federal involvement is not present.

Not sure that the general public automatically factors in state issue vs. federal right away on support or opposition on major issues.

[Dahoss]

I'm just glad Rupert is back to educate us all. We're so lucky.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I'm just glad Rupert is back to educate us all. We're so lucky.

yeah, too bad i won't be partaking of that gift.

[Antitrust32]

individuals should not have the right to tell others what to do with their bodies and their reproductive organs. if you dont like abortion, dont have one. it should not be left up to voters or state goverments. the supreme court has already made a decision on this years ago. in my opinion, Ryan was a big turnoff when the abortion question came up.. biden schooled him there. then again, why people vote soley on the issue of abortion is beyond me.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

individuals should not have the right to tell others what to do with their bodies and their reproductive organs. if you dont like abortion, dont have one. it should not be left up to voters or state goverments. the supreme court has already made a decision on this years ago. in my opinion, Ryan was a big turnoff when the abortion question came up.. biden schooled him there. then again, why people vote soley on the issue of abortion is beyond me.

Because there are people out there that will vote for this guy BECUASE of his views.

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...ms-science.cnn

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

if you dont like abortion, dont have one.

Does the executed individual get a vote?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by jms62

Because there are people out there that will vote for this guy BECUASE of his views.

http://www.cnn.com/video/standard.ht...ms-science.cnn

its crazy, isnt it?

I spoke to a young girl at work who is very very religious. She is all for Romney. I asked her why. She said that she believes Romney would put us in Gods good graces. Apparently God only judges america based on our president.. .. anways.

I explained to her that Romney is not a Christian, and that the Morman religion is different than Christianity. I let her know that being a Morman compared to a Christian is like being Jewish, or Muslim, compared to being a Christian. I dont think she understood.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Does the executed individual get a vote?

you arent alive when you cannot support your own life, breath.

I do not think abortions should be allowed after the first trimester. If it gets to the point where the fetus can thrive outside the room.. that is no good.

You really want 16 year old girls who get pregnant nowadays to not be able to choose to have a first trimester abortion? so they dont get that chance to grow up and will most likely live off taxpayers?

[Antitrust32]

abortions should also not be on the public dime. exceptions for rape, etc.

choosing to have an abortion because you dont use proper birth control is not an honorable thing. I have no idea how people, in this day in age where birth control is available pretty much everywhere, have unwanted pregnancies. I dont like it, I dont respect it... but I am certainly not going to tell someone what they can do with their own body, own life. I have my own life to worry about, and I dont want others to tell me what to do with my own body either.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

you arent alive when you cannot support your own life, breath.

I do not think abortions should be allowed after the first trimester. If it gets to the point where the fetus can thrive outside the room.. that is no good.

You really want 16 year old girls who get pregnant nowadays to not be able to choose to have a first trimester abortion? so they dont get that chance to grow up and will most likely live off taxpayers?

Joey is the king of inflamatory language. He is trying to engage you into calling him a name at which point he will declare victory

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by jms62

Joey is the king of inflamatory language. He is trying to engage you into calling him a name at which point he will declare victory

joey and i have always had civil debates. I respect him.

abortion is a sensitive subject. I'm my opinion, Roe vs wade is law, lets all move on. Though i certainly understand where pro-lifers come from.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

you arent alive when you cannot support your own life, breath.

I do not think abortions should be allowed after the first trimester. If it gets to the point where the fetus can thrive outside the room.. that is no good.

You really want 16 year old girls who get pregnant nowadays to not be able to choose to have a first trimester abortion? so they dont get that chance to grow up and will most likely live off taxpayers?

You're confusing life with viability - which was an arbitrary constructed argument in Roe V. Wade to decide in favor of allowing abortion.

The baby is growing. Only living things grow. If left alone, you will have a baby in 9 months. That is the whole purpose for the abortion, right? To not have a baby. But, to not have the baby, you need to kill it, or else it will grow and be born.

How is it that the 16 year old girl you refer to, if typical, can run rings around her parents in operating her computer or smartphone, knows enough not to smoke, and is supposedly from our smartest generation yet, but will become pregnant without considering the consequences?

Anyway - I thought Biden's abortion comments were his weakest part. He said "I don't want to impose my view" on the American people. Well, supporting Roe V. Wade is sure as hell imposing it on those whose lives will be summarily ended without a shred of due process of law.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

joey and i have always had civil debates. I respect him.

abortion is a sensitive subject. I'm my opinion, Roe vs wade is law, lets all move on. Though i certainly understand where pro-lifers come from.

I respect you too Antitrust. And I enjoy the debate. Yes - I am passionate about this subject, and I hope to change minds of those who disagree.

Yes - let's move on. I responded above - the tie in is to the debate.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by joeydb

How is it that the 16 year old girl you refer to, if typical, can run rings around her parents in operating her computer or smartphone, knows enough not to smoke, and is supposedly from our smartest generation yet, but will become pregnant without considering the consequences?

Because most people don't walk around like programmed robots. When you're 16, you're dumb. You make poor decisions. You act in the moment and don't think about the consequences of your actions.

Of course, not everyone is like that, but I think most of us non robots can think back to when we were 16 and I'm sure we all made a lot of really bad decisions. That's life man.

The real irony here is the same people who oppose abortion, are also the same who complain about government handouts. So, we don't want these dumb 16 year olds to have an abortion, and then are outraged that they cannot support themselves and their children because they are ill prepared. Makes sense.

[GenuineRisk]

Ayn Rand on abortion:

"If any among you are confused or taken in by the argument that the cells of an embryo are living human cells, remember that so are all the cells of your body, including the cells of your skin, your tonsils, or your ruptured appendix—and that cutting them is murder, according to the notions of that proposed law. Remember also that a potentiality is not the equivalent of an actuality—and that a human being’s life begins at birth.

The question of abortion involves much more than the termination of a pregnancy: it is a question of the entire life of the parents. As I have said before, parenthood is an enormous responsibility; it is an impossible responsibility for young people who are ambitious and struggling, but poor; particularly if they are intelligent and conscientious enough not to abandon their child on a doorstep nor to surrender it to adoption. For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence: parenthood would force them to give up their future, and condemn them to a life of hopeless drudgery, of slavery to a child’s physical and financial needs. The situation of an unwed mother, abandoned by her lover, is even worse.

I cannot quite imagine the state of mind of a person who would wish to condemn a fellow human being to such a horror. I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object. Judging by the degree of those women’s intensity, I would say that it is an issue of self-esteem and that their fear is metaphysical. Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today’s intellectual field, they call themselves “pro-life.”

By what right does anyone claim the power to dispose of the lives of others and to dictate their personal choices?"

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

particularly if they are intelligent and conscientious enough not to abandon their child on a doorstep nor to surrender it to adoption. ?"

who's words are these? ayn rand? they sound very unintelligent. adoption is not a terrible thing at all. there are many people who would be loving parents who cannot have babies.

That is a shameful statement... the majority of that statment is quite ridiculous actually.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Ayn Rand on abortion:

"If any among you are confused or taken in by the argument that the cells of an embryo are living human cells, remember that so are all the cells of your body, including the cells of your skin, your tonsils, or your ruptured appendix—and that cutting them is murder, according to the notions of that proposed law. Remember also that a potentiality is not the equivalent of an actuality—and that a human being’s life begins at birth.

The question of abortion involves much more than the termination of a pregnancy: it is a question of the entire life of the parents. As I have said before, parenthood is an enormous responsibility; it is an impossible responsibility for young people who are ambitious and struggling, but poor; particularly if they are intelligent and conscientious enough not to abandon their child on a doorstep nor to surrender it to adoption. For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence: parenthood would force them to give up their future, and condemn them to a life of hopeless drudgery, of slavery to a child’s physical and financial needs. The situation of an unwed mother, abandoned by her lover, is even worse.

I cannot quite imagine the state of mind of a person who would wish to condemn a fellow human being to such a horror. I cannot project the degree of hatred required to make those women run around in crusades against abortion. Hatred is what they certainly project, not love for the embryos, which is a piece of nonsense no one could experience, but hatred, a virulent hatred for an unnamed object. Judging by the degree of those women’s intensity, I would say that it is an issue of self-esteem and that their fear is metaphysical. Their hatred is directed against human beings as such, against the mind, against reason, against ambition, against success, against love, against any value that brings happiness to human life. In compliance with the dishonesty that dominates today’s intellectual field, they call themselves “pro-life.”

By what right does anyone claim the power to dispose of the lives of others and to dictate their personal choices?"

Interesting post.

"For such young people, pregnancy is a death sentence" This is obviously figurative.

Abortion is always a death sentence for the aborted. This is quite literal.

So, if we must choose between the figurative death sentence and the real one, ummm.... I'm thinking we avoid the real one.

[Antitrust32]

the first paragraph was plain stupid. i'm sorry, but abortion is not equal to cutting your fingernails or having your appendix removed.

2nd paragraph is the best of the three

the 3rd paragraph has the word "hate" in it way too much, and makes Ayn Rand look like a looney.

and the adoption line is just stupid.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Does the executed individual get a vote?

yep...before he made his choice to commit a crime. that's an absurd analogy.