Birdstone

[Calzone Lord]

This would be his 6th crop of 2-year-olds to race this year.

I don't remember ever seeing a single decent looking Birdstone 2yo ever at a 2yo sale prior to this year.

I've seen two pretty good ones, and another who wasn't bad.

He's been a lousy sire, but he was briefly in fashion after Summer Bird and Mine That Bird both had successful 3yo seasons in 2009.

This current 2yo crop of his was from that brief time when he was in fashion. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a good Birdstone or two somewhere this year. He's been one of the surprise sires of the 2yo sale season, simply because most Birdstones you see are a joke, and that definitely hasn't been the case this year.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

This would be his 6th crop of 2-year-olds to race this year.

I don't remember ever seeing a single decent looking Birdstone 2yo ever at a 2yo sale prior to this year.

I've seen two pretty good ones, and another who wasn't bad.

He's been a lousy sire, but he was briefly in fashion after Summer Bird and Mine That Bird both had successful 3yo seasons in 2009.

This current 2yo crop of his was from that brief time when he was in fashion. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a good Birdstone or two somewhere this year. He's been one of the surprise sires of the 2yo sale season, simply because most Birdstones you see are a joke, and that definitely hasn't been the case this year.

He's had some expensive 2 year olds in the past. I can't remember if it was 2009 or 2010 but I remember Ciaran Dunne had one that sold really well at the Keeneland April Sale. He worked :10 flat and sold for around $320,000. I think it was in 2010.

You can't really judge Birdstone based on his runners in 2010 and 2011. I think he had very small crops those years. He'll have tons of 2 year olds this year and next year.

Birdstone's size definitely hurts him. A lot of people don't want to breed to a sire that is so small. But he's doing alright. He's standing for $10,000 and I think he's got a pretty full book.

[Calzone Lord]

The two best he's had, by far, are this year in my opinion.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The two best he's had, by far, are this year in my opinion.

S.S. Stone was pretty nice. He didn't last too long but he had some talent.

[Calzone Lord]

One of them is already named (Conquest Titan) and working at Churchill.

I thought that one was extremely impressive at OBS March. Went 10 flat for his 1/8th and galloped out impressively in 20 4/5 and 33 flat.

Did it in blinkers, but looked to be moving very efficiently. Certainly passed the market test as well, was a $75,000 yearling in September and sold for $475,000

If I'm looking at a first time starter ... and I see the sire is Birdstone, and the dam's an unraced Mineshaft out of a Kingmambo mare... it's immediate elimination no matter what. I wouldn't even include it for the 4th slot in supers.

For that kind of pedigree, I thought that the now named Conquest Titan was very impressive in his drill to say the least.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

One of them is already named (Conquest Titan) and working at Churchill.

I thought that one was extremely impressive at OBS March. Went 10 flat for his 1/8th and galloped out impressively in 20 4/5 and 33 flat.

Did it in blinkers, but looked to be moving very efficiently. Certainly passed the market test as well, was a $75,000 yearling in September and sold for $475,000

If I'm looking at a first time starter ... and I see the sire is Birdstone, and the dam's an unraced Mineshaft out of a Kingmambo mare... it's immediate elimination no matter what. I wouldn't even include it for the 4th slot in supers.

For that kind of pedigree, I thought that the now named Conquest Titan was very impressive in his drill to say the least.

I liked his work. Everybody on here likes to joke about crossfiring but this horse actually was crossfiring for his first 10 strides or so. That doesn't bother me when it's at the beginning of a work. I think he was just a little bit green. After he switched to his right lead behind, he looked really good.

As you said, it's impressive when a horse with that kind of breeding works like that. If he was by Wildcat Heir, it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

[Alabama Stakes]

oh Lord, can you give a report about the Old Fashioned's you have seen ? Are they as stunning as He was ? How are they selling ?

[VOL JACK]

I just don't know how much support he's had.
I'm not sure if it fair to call him a lousy Sire when in his first crop he has the Derby, Belmont, and Travers winner.

Love him as wet track sire.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

oh Lord, can you give a report about the Old Fashioned's you have seen ? Are they as stunning as He was ? How are they selling ?

I thought the Old Fashioned 2 year olds looked pretty good. They were better than I was expecting. Unbridled's Song is obviously a really good sire but most of his sons have been a bit disappointing as sires. A few of them have been ok but I can't think of any of them off the top of my head that have been really good. Maybe Old Fashioned or Dunkirk will finally give him a son that turns out to be a good sire. Both Dunkirk and Old Fashioned had plenty of 2 year olds at the sales this year that looked like they could run.

This could be misleading though because sires will often times get really good support in their first year or two. Then nobody wants to breed to them in their 3rd and 4th year because people are afraid that the sire could turn out to be another Budha. Take Birdstone, for example. He got good support his first couple of years. His first year at stud was 2005. That means his first 2 year old crop was in 2008. Nobody is going to want to breed to him in 2007 or 2008 because you don't know how his offspring are going to do in 2008 and 2009. If you bred to him in 2007, you're going to have a yearling in 2009. If his offspring bomb on the track in 2008 and 2009, you're not going to be able to give away the yearling.

If you are a seller, there is actually far greater risk breeding to a 3rd or 4th year sire than a debut sire. With a debut sire, they haven't had a chance to bomb yet. For example, if you are a seller and you breed your mare to Union Rags this year, your yearling will probably sell fine if he looks good. Union Rags may be a terrible sire but when you get to the yearling sale, nobody will know that yet. So if you're a seller, there's actually way more risk breeding to a 3rd year sire than a debut sire. If you breed to race, that's a different story.

Going back to Birdstone, I don't think he was bred to more than about 30-40 mares in 2007, and the same in 2008. The main person breeding to him in those two years was Marylou Whitney. So he's obviously not going to have many 2 year olds in 2010 and 2011. He got a ton of mares in 2010 because of his two big winners in 2009. So he will have plenty of runners this year and next year. He actually wasn't bred to as many mares this year as I thought. I think he was only bred to about 50-60 mares this year. I thought he was pretty full this year but I was wrong.

Going back to Old Fashioned and Dunkirk, I am definitely encouraged by what I've seen so far, but I think it is still too early to make any type of strong prediction. I thought Value Plus had some decent looking 2 year olds in his first year, and he ended up totally bombing, so you never know.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

oh Lord, can you give a report about the Old Fashioned's you have seen ? Are they as stunning as He was ? How are they selling ?

More info on Old Fashioned:

Highest average for two-year-olds in training of any first-year stallion in 2013 ($184,222)
2013 juveniles have sold for $500,000, $340,000, $300,000, $190,000, $160,000, etc.

http://www.taylormadestallions.com/h...ioned-950.html

[Alabama Stakes]

thanks for the great info !

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

One of them is already named (Conquest Titan) and working at Churchill.

I thought that one was extremely impressive at OBS March. Went 10 flat for his 1/8th and galloped out impressively in 20 4/5 and 33 flat.

Did it in blinkers, but looked to be moving very efficiently. Certainly passed the market test as well, was a $75,000 yearling in September and sold for $475,000

If I'm looking at a first time starter ... and I see the sire is Birdstone, and the dam's an unraced Mineshaft out of a Kingmambo mare... it's immediate elimination no matter what. I wouldn't even include it for the 4th slot in supers.

For that kind of pedigree, I thought that the now named Conquest Titan was very impressive in his drill to say the least.

Good observation he sure is training like a good one he worked 5/8's today at CD in 100.1 (very Nice). He is not to far away from running I will let you know when hes getting ready to hit the entries.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Good observation he sure is training like a good one he worked 5/8's today at CD in 100.1 (very Nice). He is not to far away from running I will let you know when hes getting ready to hit the entries.

Who's the trainer?

[Calzone Lord]

47.20 workout from the gate today at Churchill Downs.

It shared the 4f bullet with Frac Daddy, 59 horses worked the distance at CD today.

I would definitely say this one is starting to get close to a race.

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

47.20 workout from the gate today at Churchill Downs.

It shared the 4f bullet with Frac Daddy, 59 horses worked the distance at CD today.

I would definitely say this one is starting to get close to a race.

Talked with the asst yesterday at CD (Norman Casse Marks Son) he said he looked like he was just galloping. Nothing has been picked out for his first start yet but we can't wait to see this one hit the entries, he sure is training like a good one.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Talked with the asst yesterday at CD (Norman Casse Marks Son) he said he looked like he was just galloping. Nothing has been picked out for his first start yet but we can't wait to see this one hit the entries, he sure is training like a good one.

how exciting for you. good luck with him!

[Round Pen]

Birdstone is starting to be Pretty good to us we have a 3 year old by the name of Brilliant Comet who is now 2 for 2 after winning the 2nd race today at Woodbine. And we have another 2 year old that I still have here in Ocala by the Name of Noble Bird that I think could be a pretty nice colt, so remember his name for later this summer.

[Round Pen]

Conquest Titan is Supposed to Work 5/8's this AM but I an Seeing the weather is Pretty Rough At CD. THere is a shot he could run on the 21st there is a race going 5.5f.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Conquest Titan is Supposed to Work 5/8's this AM but I an Seeing the weather is Pretty Rough At CD. THere is a shot he could run on the 21st there is a race going 5.5f.

I see you guys opted to run Conquest Two Step in that 6/21 race. He was another who lit it up big-time in the gallop-out after his work just like Conquest Titan did.

Also, Good job getting the debut win with Conquest Whiplash today in the 150k stake at Woodbine.

Conquest Titan also, apparently, turned in a sharp 4f work from the gate this morning.

And there's another one that I like a whole lot who is named Conquest, so I'm going to assume you guys have that one as well.

Should be a very fun year for you guys. You did a great job getting some very obvious stone cold precocious runners. No need to get cute, let the horses do what they want to do, and it will be a lot of fun to watch.

[blackthroatedwind]

Did you look at the field for the $150K Woodbine Stake? It was a $15K claiming race essentially.