Saratoga Handle And Att Decline

[randallscott35]

More surprised at a 3.5% attendance decline. A disappointment.

http://www.drf.com/news/saratoga-mee...dle-attendance

[ateamstupid]

Important:

All-sources handle for the 40-day meet was $586,685,153, down 0.2 percent from last year’s figure of $588,351,964. A drop of $4.7 million in all-sources handle on Monday’s card, compared with last year on closing day, made the difference between a negligible uptick in business and a negligible dip. There were 54 scratches Monday due to six turf races being forced to the main track.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Important:

Agreed, which is why I said the attendance is an ongoing issue. I don't think people were waiting for the inner to go to the track.

[richard burch]

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perfect timing. just got back from saratoga a few hours ago. the place was packed on sunday.

and if you live within 3 hrs or so make sure you get there. it was an experience i will never forget.

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[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Important:

It isn't that important. Yes there was a bad few days at the end, but all in all this was one of the better meets I can remember weather wise. How many turf races were lost this year compared to recent years? I'm guessing the number is pretty low this year comparatively.

[cmorioles]

I found it:

http://www.drf.com/news/saratoga-201...overall-handle

Despite the article claiming spectacular weather, there were less races taken off this year:

2013
Total Races: 420 Turf Races: 209 Off Turf: 24 (89.7% stayed on)

2012
Total Races: 417 Turf Races: 197 Off Turf: 27 (87.9% stayed on)

2011
Total Races: 398 Turf Races: 158 Off Turf: 41 (79.4% stayed on)

I'm not saying in any way that the meet was good or bad, but to blame the weather on the last day is a BIG reach.

[10 pnt move up]

Couple things I noticed with these numbers it just reaffirms to me that the economy has very little to do with Saratoga handle, especially on track. Why its slightly down is a bit confusing. In general I think people make it a point to bet Saratoga, where Del Mar for example I believe is tied more to the economy, that combined with the new ship in program really changed that probably to the best meat I can remember in at least a decade from a betting standpoint. It has been a great 6 weeks for the player.

[ateamstupid]

No one's "blaming" today's weather for anything. I was just pointing out how small the margin was between 2012 and 2013 handle since some people only read headlines and extrapolate things like "Saratoga Handle Declines".

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

No one's "blaming" today's weather for anything. I was just pointing out how small the margin was between 2012 and 2013 handle since some people only read headlines and extrapolate things like "Saratoga Handle Declines".

I meant the article seemed to be blaming today. Given the weather and a few more races, "Handle Declines" would be pretty accurate in my opinion.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Couple things I noticed with these numbers it just reaffirms to me that the economy has very little to do with Saratoga handle, especially on track. Why its slightly down is a bit confusing. In general I think people make it a point to bet Saratoga, where Del Mar for example I believe is tied more to the economy, that combined with the new ship in program really changed that probably to the best meat I can remember in at least a decade from a betting standpoint. It has been a great 6 weeks for the player.

That was opening day

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by asudevil

That was opening day

ha ha, wasnt that the Cougar II handicap day...

[PatCummings]

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

OK, overall handle declined.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

OK, overall handle declined.

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

[Gaelic Storm]

An easy way to increase attendance is to have more give aways. It won't help handle much but an extra tee shirt day or 2 might increase paid attendance by a 20K.

About the handle I wonder how many pick six carryovers there were last year compared to this year and how big they were?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

Attendance concerns are farcical because the numbers that are being used are completely artificial due to the 'spinner' phenomenon of the 90's-00's. They are 'down' because they were never that 'up'. The pairing back of giveaways guarantees lower year-to-year attendance numbers.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

When 85-90% of all racing handle is collected off-track, why people think focusing on attendance as an important metric for anyone but those counting gate and concession revenue is beyond me.

I disagree strongly. Lifelong fans of horse racing are created not by watching TVG but going to the track. I get the spinner phenom which Steve talked about so I have no problem if the numbers aren't apples to apples. But the idea that attendance at the most important meet in the entire nation is meaningless doesn't wash with me.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Which basically boiled down to one day (yesterday) having a sizable difference year over year. Closing weekend this year was a disaster from a handle perspective.

Granted, handle should have been up given the terrific weather and overall number of races. There's no reasonable explanation for it at this point. However, to use attendance as a metric of any type is irrelevant.

I wonder if improved racing product and weather at other venues may have hurt Saratoga? Not really sure, I know Del Mar which I follow pretty close, had its best meet probably since 2000ish. Now if we can just get real dirt.

[Cannon Shell]

The declines or gains had the last day not been wiped out are pretty much negligible. The attendance total figures as was pointed out are artificially enhanced and are hardly accurate anyway. The handle decline this season can be almost directly tied to those friends of Fowlers being wiped out by Andy's poor selections and not being allowed to churn the pools with their millions.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The declines or gains had the last day not been wiped out are pretty much negligible. The attendance total figures as was pointed out are artificially enhanced and are hardly accurate anyway. The handle decline this season can be almost directly tied to those friends of Fowlers being wiped out by Andy's poor selections and not being allowed to churn the pools with their millions.