ukraine

[Danzig]

putin has 'asked permission' (hilarious) to use military force in ukraine. i'm sure he doesn't want a pro-western govt installed there, so he's going to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Danzig]

http://news.msn.com/world/crimean-le...putin-for-help

[dellinger63]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jDVT-FYV7g

[Seattleallstar]

Question is what will Obama do now, he Jimmy Cartered the Russia problem

[Danzig]

honestly, i'm not sure that obama should do anything. the first question must be what has it got to do with us?

it's too bad that we have foolishly behaved all these years in the middle east. we bogged ourselves down completely with rotten foreign policy.

and of course an update says that parliament gave permission. it's laughable to think he needed to ask. or that they would refuse.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by Danzig

honestly, i'm not sure that obama should do anything. the first question must be what has it got to do with us?

it's too bad that we have foolishly behaved all these years in the middle east. we bogged ourselves down completely with rotten foreign policy.

and of course an update says that parliament gave permission. it's laughable to think he needed to ask. or that they would refuse.

It's about keeping Putin and Russia in check, that's what it has to do with us. Putin at anytime can say screw this and become a problem and a real threat. Russia and China can upset the world order at anytime

[jms62]

So a democratically elected leader gets ousted by rebels and asks a neighbor for help. If this happened in Mexico and we were asked for help would we expect the world to look at us as the bad guy?

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by jms62

So a democratically elected leader gets ousted by rebels and asks a neighbor for help. If this happened in Mexico and we were asked for help would we expect the world to look at us as the bad guy?

We are never the bad guys, the perks of being "the" superpower

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

We are never the bad guys, the perks of being "the" superpower

We certainly no longer "Walk Softly and carry a Big Stick". We now Talk loudly and hope we have the biggest stick and enough money to buy more sticks.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Danzig

honestly, i'm not sure that obama should do anything. the first question must be what has it got to do with us?

it's too bad that we have foolishly behaved all these years in the middle east. we bogged ourselves down completely with rotten foreign policy.

and of course an update says that parliament gave permission. it's laughable to think he needed to ask. or that they would refuse.

Agree...Ukraine was part of the old USSR...If dumya was still here he would invade!...I think we should stay out, by no means send troops or planes...let them settle unless we get 100% UN support...Look where they are located, what can we do other than talk?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Agree...Ukraine was part of the old USSR...If dumya was still here he would invade!...I think we should stay out, by no means send troops or planes...let them settle unless we get 100% UN support...Look where they are located, what can we do other than talk?

Stay Out Period unless our dwindling allies get involved first and beg us for help.

[bigrun]

[bigrun]

The approval came within two hours of Putin appealing to parliament, saying the move is needed to protect ethnic Russians and the personnel of a Russian military base in Ukraine's strategic region of Crimea, a peninsula the size of Massachusetts where three out of four people speak Russian.


However, the vote does not specify that Russian troops are authorized to enter Crimea; instead, it states Russia's military force can enter "Ukraine," giving themselves a legal cloak to target more than Crimea.

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/u...on-plan-n41861

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...lculating.html



obama, let the euro's call for the soviet...er russian withdrawal. it's not in our 'sphere of influence'. oh, for the days when we worried only about the america's.
let europe continue their petty bs fights. can we not learn from the middle east, also not in our sphere?

i think the author of the above article is on to something. this won't be easy for russia.
we should watch, listen, wait...but say and more importantly, DO nothing. see how things shake out. an immediate issue doesn't always require an immediate response.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

So a democratically elected leader gets ousted by rebels and asks a neighbor for help. If this happened in Mexico and we were asked for help would we expect the world to look at us as the bad guy?

The media can't even name the rebels as the Crimean Tatars (gypsy muslims). A 20% minority. Putin is answering the calls for help the Ukraine ignored.

Siberian prisons are too westernized for these people yet our narcissist media has it as a fight for independence and a yearning for the western life.

Of course all involved are far less bigoted/anti-gay than the people of Arizona.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

The media can't even name the rebels as the Crimean Tatars (gypsy muslims). A 20% minority. Putin is answering the calls for help the Ukraine ignored.

Siberian prisons are too westernized for these people yet our narcissist media has it as a fight for independence and a yearning for the western life.

Of course all involved are far less bigoted/anti-gay than the people of Arizona.

Our media is owned by the same folks that profit from ongoing state of war. Interesting that this spin comes just as we have MAJOR military budget cuts. I am not saying that the Ukraine issue was manufactured but the spin we are taking certainly could be.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by jms62

Our media is owned by the same folks that profit from ongoing state of war. Interesting that this spin comes just as we have MAJOR military budget cuts. I am not saying that the Ukraine issue was manufactured but the spin we are taking certainly could be.

Putin reportedly took over control of Crimea w/o a shot being fired and has secured weapons from being overtaken by the rebels on two bases.

In other news, travel agents have reported great interest in flights to Sevastopol from Pakistan and Yemen.

[GenuineRisk]

Best two quotes I've read on it so far:

John Cole: "I guess watching the Russians do what they want in Ukraine is how the rest of the world felt when we invaded Iraq."

Dana Milbank: This is the point in an international crisis when we all wait silently to see what Obama does so we can criticize whatever it is."

My 10th grade World History teacher was from Ukraine. That was back in the USSR days and she got quite insulted if anyone called her "Russian." She was great. Won PA's Teacher of the Year that same year.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Best two quotes I've read on it so far:

John Cole: "I guess watching the Russians do what they want in Ukraine is how the rest of the world felt when we invaded Iraq."

Dana Milbank: This is the point in an international crisis when we all wait silently to see what Obama does so we can criticize whatever it is."

My 10th grade World History teacher was from Ukraine. That was back in the USSR days and she got quite insulted if anyone called her "Russian." She was great. Won PA's Teacher of the Year that same year.

[Danzig]

just read about ukraine mobilizing after putin's 'declaration of war'.

here's hoping cool heads prevail. seems that right now, the answer is economic steps will be taken vs russia. since the first thing needed to wage war is money, this might be the best angle of attack.

someone far more intelligent than our current politicians warned us against entanglements in europe, warned us against perpetual allies....he was so right about what would happen if we took the steps we've taken, for years now.